Personally, if I were an actual Marine rifleman, I’d be insulted if someone said I was like a cook or driver. Combat arms troops need to feel like they’re better than all of those REMFs scuttling around in the background - it helps make up for all of the crap they put up with.
To be fair, Monty, I recall during my sleep deprived days of BCT in the Army myself that they “covered” a lot of things. I would expect that had it been 17 weeks instead of 11 weeks, the extra 6 weeks of training might have made me a more capable infantry soldier. It’s not just a matter of checking the boxes on a piece of paper.
Also, the Marines PT seems more rigorous to me (pullups) and there is the training to shoot from more common battle firing positions - standing and kneeling.
I’m perfectly comfortable in saying I think the average marine is probably more of a warrior than the average Army soldier. I don’t envy them such a dubious honor in the slightest. Had I gone combat arms, I would have far rather trained to be a vehicle operator or mechanic, as I would rather a 50 ton fighting machine with computers and optics and armor be the “warrior” and I can just be a joystick jockey or guy who figures out how to make it work again.
Frankly, I think the military should over time shrink those infantry units and spend the money on the R&D and ultimately procurement for some kind of robotic drone you can send in instead. You don’t send a guy in shirtsleeves up to a suspected bomb, so why should a squad of guys in light armor have to be the people who walk through the doorway of someone’s house?
We do not get drivers training. Where did you get that?
Okay if you want to, but that was never my point. My point is about what training do Marines get, and then Marines are required to qualify annually with the rifle regardless of MOS. If the Army requires that, then fine, and maybe they do or don’t. But the Marine Corps does.
A REMF with a rifle, who has to qualify annually with the rifle, is a far cry from a grunt who specializes in infantry training.
A REMF with a rifle, who has to qualify annually with the rifle, is also a far cry from a REMF who shot once in basic training and then has never touched the rifle again in their career.
I do not disagree with this point. There is big a difference between having basic rifleman skills, and being a professional rifleman. The post-basic SOI training is for non-infantry. Infantry Marines go instead to specialized infantry training,
Here’s SOI info: Marine Corps Boot Camp | Recruit Basic Training | Marines
Technically they do not get the same specialized training that all infantry officers get. All Marine officers attend OCS and TBS which includes infantry training.
OCS: Become a Marine Corps Officer | Marines
TBS: Officer Candidates School | Marines
Yes but everyone in the Army is required to qualify twice a year.
Talking about boot, not SOI. One of the sources said weeks 10-13 included written tests, drivers training, and DnC. I guess it was wring about the driver training part?
But anothrr source I just found mentioned “team week” where recruits spend a week doing details, laundry and mowing grass and shit? And there is another week of swim lessons? Thats two weeks of noncombat stuff right there. Hell, thats a week of completely no instruction whatsoever. So you cant just look at the length. That 29 days of SOI does mean a Marine cook receives more combat skill training than an Army cook during initial entry training.
Canadian military personnel in the land component have to go through something similar to that. I was just a combat engineer reservist and I learned defense of a position, combat formations, section assault, patrolling, using the radio, reporting intel, land navigation, hand grenades, the M249 equivalent, the M240 equivalent, marches and physical training.
I’m a Rifleman, woop woop!
This is my horn. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My horn is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
My horn, without me, is useless. Without my horn, I am useless. I must toot my horn lots. I must toot harder than other people are rolling eyes at me. I must toot at them before they toot at me.
“POG”?
“arty FDC”?
ETA to above, and FWIW:
Alessan mentioned "REMF"s which I believe is “rear echelon mothefuckers.”
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Do they actually use that in the IDF?
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It–and I think those two acronyms I queried above-focuses an undercurrent (lousy metaphors) of some of the discussion here, on respect shown, or thought to be shown, for different
MOS’s.
As a case in point, in Israel I do know they use the word “jobnik” for soldier who does not face bullets, etc., and can be used disparagingly or simply as a description, depending on context.
I’m confused, too, since the only thing I can think of that fits “FDC” is Fire Direction Center. I just don’t see that as being very “arty”.
Arty= artillery. The FDC calculates firing sololutions for artillery battery fire missions.
It’s been maybe 3 years since I had to poke around in the STRAC standards but there’s some, at least recent, exceptions to that:
- The majority of the total Army (aka the two reserve components) only has a requirement to qualify annually. When mobilized under Title 10 they fall under active component guidance.
- The requirement is to qualify with their assigned individual weapon. There are people who’s assigned weapon (or weapons for dual carry slots) by MTOE is not a rifle. One example is, in the words of an AC CSM from an Infantry background that I worked with, “fucking tankers.”
- Soldiers assigned to TDA units which do not possess weapons have no requirement to qualify, ever…well until reassigned elsewhere.
That doesn’t mean the chain of command won’t raise the standard and make them do it anyway. It’s wasn’t an Army wide requirement as of 2013.
Since you mention it, The Marine Corps has a similar exemption for “Marines assigned to units with no rifles on their T/E” per Chapter 2 of MCO 3574.2K
How can every Marine be a rifleman when The Corps readily admits it has units that aren’t even assigned rifles and are therefore exempt from qualification requirements??
Similarly, this statement is not true.
There are usually exceptions to a rule. Absolutes are rare. We are talking generally here.
Absolutes? Like “all” Marines are rifleman? Those kinds of absolutes? What is your point here? Generally, all US Army soldiers are required to qualify regularly with their M4 or M16. There is absolutely nothing special or unique about the Marine Corps generally having the same requirement.
Generally everyone in the Army is required to qualify twice a year with their weapon. You still dont hear them telling everyone they are riflemen or infantrymen or that there is something unique about having to go to a marksmanship range for record fire.
Oooh. You better be careful, Bear_Nenno. You might slip up and use the term “Ex-Marine” instead of “former Marine”. Of course, anyone at all who both knows English and has a working brain is fully aware that those two terms have the same meaning.