Sorry, but this bit of spiel isn’t worth much. Monty said on 6 Oct that it was a myth. And as of that day, for the USAF, it is NOT a myth, but codified in an official AF publication. Previous versions of the regulation are irrelevant, the cite I posted is the official AF position on saluting Medal of Honor recipients. There may or may not be a manual that states the opposite, but AF instructions are directive, and must be followed. Manuals are not, so AFIs take precedence.
Okay, great. That is one service among five! So for 75% of the military, it is a myth. And the other 25% is too confused to be consistant across all of its publications. I think that is worth something.
Are you able to produce this publication that supposedly contradicts the AF instruction?
I’ve posted it before in one of the 80 previous threads on the subject. No, I won’t be digging it up again on my phone. Maybe next week if you’re still interested, I will go digging through the hamster shit to find it. In the meantime, just accept the fact that for Monty’s entire career which spanned two decades and two services, this was a mythm So, for him to say its a myth in Oct 2015, less than 3 years after one of 5 services made it official, is not 100% wrong. I think that is important to mention and not merely a “worthless spiel”.
So you can’t produce it then. Thanks for letting me know that you have nothing to back up your claims.
Out of curiosity, how long after something becomes factual are we allowed to stop calling it a myth? Apparently 3 years isn’t long enough for a fact to become not-a-myth.
I’ve already produced it. Thats different than not being able to. Why are you being intentionally argumentative? We have agreed that this is now an official rule in the Air Force. No one is arguing about that. I was just pointing out a very relevant point that it is a brand new rule in the Air Force, so Monty’s info is just three years out dated. What is your problem?
Three years outdated for just one branch, I will add. Monty was Navy and Army. In those two services, it is still very much a myth.
When I post it next week, is that going to make a bit of difference for you?
This pedantry is going well.
yes, actually. I know it might be surprising to you, but I would like to see it.
I don’t have a problem. This is after all just a message board. However, I wasn’t aware that posting info that is 3 years out of date and incorrect is an acceptable practice in General Questions.
From this thread in November 2013:
[QUOTE=Bear Nenno]
AFPAM 34-1202, written 6 months after AFI 1-1 has this to say:
8.8.1.1. Salute. There is no law or military regulation requiring personnel of any rank to salute a Medal of Honor recipient. However, it is permissible to salute a recipient as a display of respect or honor, whether he or she is civilian or retired military, when he or she is physically wearing the medal. "
And AFI 34-1201 doesn’t mention the Medal of Honor at all. It only lists the following people as being entitled to a salute: Senior officers, POTUS, vPOTUS, SECDEF, other Secrataries, Other US officers and Officers of friendly nations. Nothing about MoH.
[/QUOTE]
Bolding added.
Also found this:
I was unable to find anything at the official website of that organization.
Take artillery as an example… though artillery has been in comparatively less demand these past few years, we can’t just say we’ll cut it entirely, otherwise we might not have that capability when a future conflict requires it.
This article tells the story of an artillery battery pressed into doing security patrols in Afghanistan. Knowing what a big gap these guys had in terms of training, conditioning, and experience, I found it a heartbreaking read. They came up to speed eventually but it cost them dearly.
double post.
It’s not just pedantry though. It is significant because it shines light on the fact that all the stories circulating about encounters where generals or whatever were forced into an akward situation where they had to reluctantly salute an MoH recipient are all bullshit stories. Audie Murphy, a SEAL during a surprise inspection… there are tons of these stories. They are made up. They are myths. Of course it is fine and perfect to voluntarily salute a MoH recipient to show respec. But these stories usually involve some GOTCHA where a higher ranking asshole was forced to do because of the regulation. No regulation existed before 2012. And for th Army and Navy (the service where most of these stories take place), there is still no regulation demanding it. So no on has ever been forced into a reluctant salute as told in those stories.
THANK YOU! The Air Force needs to get their shit together. I readily admit the AFI takes precedence as it is binding, and the pamphlet is merely guidance. But it does show there was some confusion on the part of the drafters. They are both official Air Force publications.
So while it is no longer a myth in the Air Force, all those stories in the past are myths. They never happened.
I agree with this 100%
Also, thanks to Irishman for finding the link.
I wouldn’t go that far. While it is true there was no previous regulation that forced officers to salute MOH recipients, it is probable there was a culture within the military that they deserved the respect. And it is conceivable that some otherwise shitty officer found himself confronted with an MOH recipient, and chose to salute out of deference.
For instance, Audie Murphy’s story doesn’t require that General Lucas be required to salute Audie. Audie certainly wouldn’t have been in uniform or wearing the medal on the set of the film. But if Lucas felt it was his duty and custom out of respect and chose to salute Audie, then Audie would have been well within his rights to return the salute and walk off without the handshake, thereby trying to communicate something about his attitude towards Lucas.
But what makes the idea it is myth more plausible is that Audie was under no compunction to return a salute if he wasn’t in uniform, nor was he under any compunction to give a handshake. He could have safely snubbed either. The point of the story is that Audie got the better of Lucas via the requirement that Lucas salute, and that’s why the story is weakened by knowing that there was no law or regulation requiring salutes to MOH recipients.
I will point out the cites given show that it is a requirement for Coast Guard as well.
That was absolutely horrific to read about. And the utter futility of it - they talk about how other civilians and other soldiers were getting to enjoy hamburgers and parks, while these soldiers felt they were fighting for our freedoms.
That’s a nice sentiment but completely untrue - they were out in the field to die because of some politically correct “nation building” and “community engagement” bullshit.
This is part of the reason why so many soldiers died, they didn’t have a fully equipped FOB and they didn’t have armored vehicles to protected from the IEDs.