Specialist Sivits was sentenced today to a year in prison. In addition, he’s being demoted back to private (E-1) and will be dishonorably discharged from the service.
What, exactly, is the point of the demotion? It’s not going to affect his prison sentence one way or the other, and I highly doubt he’d be eligible for any post-career benefits with a dishonorable discharge. So, why go through the meaningless demotion? Or is it routine (i.e. if a General were convicted, would s/he also be demoted to buck private?)
It may seem a bit abstract to a civialian but reduction in earned rank ads to the dishonor of the sentance. You are correct that it makes little practical difference after discharge but stripping rank has long been a part of military punishment. Rank in the military goes beyond the fact that someone is someone else’s supervisor or foreman.
Does a servicemember get paid while incarcerated? Is his/her family eligible for any benefits while the servicemember is incarcerated? If so, then reduction in rank would have a corresponding reduction in pay and benefits.
I have no idea if this is the case. Someone care to enlighten me?
Generally, when convicted and sentenced to prison, the sentence reads “reduction to E-1, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and a dishonorable discharge.” To the best of my knowledge, those with a DD are not elegible for any benefits. Basically, the service member is shit out of luck and so is his family, if any.
Does the fact of being reduced to E-1 instead of retaining some higher rank affect the convict’s treatment while in military prison? Would a higher rank still carry any privileges? Or are all servicemen sentenced to imprisonment automatically reduced to E-1?
" . . . a court-martial sentence of an enlisted member in pay grade above E-1 . . . that includes . . . confinement . . . reduces that member to pay grade E-1 . . ."
Interesting.
Is a reduction in pay grade the same thing as a reduction in rank?
If it isn’t, does a reduction in pay grade mean anything at all for someone who has already forfeited all pay and allowances?
If it is, what is the consequence of having a lower rank while in prison. Do you get lousier treatment from the guards? From other prisoners?
Does the reference to “enlisted member” mean that the same reduction in rank (or pay grade) doesn’t apply (or, at least, doesn’t automatically apply) to a commissioned officer sentenced to confinement?
And, if not, does anybody know if the officer’s higher rank is of any advantage to him while in prison?
It has to do with the applicability of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Basically, if you get put away for doing something that’s not illegal under civil law (E.G. “Missing Movement”) the only grounds they have for sentencing you is the UCMJ. If by some quirk you were discharged BEFORE you served your sentence, you could, theoretically, argue that they have no grounds to imprison you, since you are now a civilian. and you’ve committed no crime under civil law.
So, short version, you get discharged after you’ve served your sentence. Since you’re still a salaried member of the uniformed services while you’re in the pokey, it looks better to the bean counters if you’re making E-1 than E-6, because, even though they get that money right back as forfeit, it’s still a few thousand that can be allocated elsewhere rather than bounced off your paycheck.
I just wanted to throw in the response to the “If a General was convicted, would he be lowered to E-1 as well.” The answer is no. Usually, commissioned officers are not reduced in rank at all. Certainly not without some serious charges and convictions.
Enlisted soldiers (especially junior enlisted) can lose rank for relatively small infractions, such as failure to report, disrespecting an NCO or Officer, etc. The higher you are in the enlisted chain, the harder it is to lose rank without a court martial. A Specialist can be demoted one rank to PFC by a Captain or Lieutenant (if in command), or to E-1 by a Major or above, without a court martial (what we call an Article 15, or non-judicial punishment) E-5s and E-6s can only be reduced 1 grade by a Major or LTC.
A General convicted of anything, no matter how serious, can only be reduced to O-1, or Second Lieutenant. The regulations state that commissioned officers can only be reduced to another commissioned rank.
What’s the difference between honourable and general? Which is the default upon leaving the service? Is undesirable for personnel with some sort of moral or character failing who don’t go so far as to break a law or regulation? Which one did you get? If you don’t mind answering of course.
What about don’t ask; don’t tell? If you do admit to homosexual preferences but deny acting upon them, does that get you a discharge? What if it’s credibly alleged that you are homosexually inclined but you don’t even admit to that?
I notice Sivits received the maximum of 1 year and yet still agreed beforehand to later give evidence against accomplices. Could the offer of a bcd as opposed to a dd have been the carrot the prosecution offered him?
Further hijack; will Sivits face harder time in a military prison for being a rat as he would in many civilian prisons?
Just a guess, but I had assumed that the “carrot” was an agreement not to try him on more serious charges which could have resulted in a longer sentence.
An honorable discharge is given to someone who has served honorably. That doesn’t mean that you can’t have had some sort of hiccups along the way, including non-judicial punishments (NJPs). Persons who screwed up a couple of times and who are redeemable can serve a career and leave with an honorable discharge.
A general discharge can be given to someone (for instance) who is deemed unsuitable for military service just because he/she can’t fit in, or who can’t pass the physical fitness requirements…you get the picture. They haven’t done anything wrong, but are basically discharged at the convenience of the government.
An undesirable discharge may be given to someone who is a misfit; someone who has racked up several NJPs and is deemed to be incorrigible. I suspect that this is the type discharge given to homosexuals in the past (and possibly present).
A bad-conduct discharge could be given to the above person, but generally is a result of more serious behavior, including drug use, assaults, etc.
Dishonorable discharges are generally doled out to those who are felons and who have disgraced the uniform.
At least that was my experience. I retired with an honorable discharge after 23 years of unblemished service.
I recall an episode of MAS*H where Klinger refused a discharge on the grounds of being a homosexual, and said he wanted a Section 8, which is mentally ill. Assuming they got military justice right, I would think that a Section 8 would be a general discharge. If someone becomes schizophrenic, they are just sick, and thus should be given a General discharge under honorable conditions. The military must have seen homosexuality as undesirable bad behavior, and being discharged for that would be consider worse than being crazy.