The 2nd degree charge is specifically unintentional second degree murder. I think thats essentially felony murder but could be wrong.
The theory being charged is causing a death in the course of committing another felony, to wit third degree assault.
Yes, sort of. It is but it’s treated as a much lesser offense here, as a lesser form of 2nd degree murder rather than equivalent to 1st degree or capital murder. Also in Minnesota the actor has to be an active participant in whatever caused the death. This certainly applies to Chauvin since he was the one allegedly committing the underlying felony of 3rd degree assault, but it would not to say a lookout or getaway driver at a home invasion that went bad and where someone was killed.
Do you think there’s a chance that Chauvin believed that the only reason it wasn’t “heated” for those 9+ minutes was because he was kneeling on him? It sure was heated prior to that wouldn’t you say? I mean, the video of GF in the back of the squad car is traumatic to see, especially in light of how it ended, but that trauma and “heat” was because GF wouldn’t comply with instructions and physically thrashed about with LEOs, all after being taken into custody for multiple crimes.
Did GF deserve to die? Of course not. Could Chauvin have handled things better in hindsight? Of course. But the environment that resulted in GF death was not created solely by the LEOs. GF and the bystanders contributed mightily.
I don’t understand why the Two Rookie officers were charged.
Chauvin has 20 years experience and Thao almost the same. They wouldn’t listen to Rookies. I think it was reported that Chauvin had recently been a in-field training officer for one of them.
The Rookies would have been good witnesses. If an immunity deal had been offered. Their testimony about their use of force training would be helpful.
I can see that Thao is equally responsible as Chauvin. It’s his partner. He could have said, Hey loosen up that grip. The guy isn’t resisting. Chauvin would listen to his partner.
I assume it can’t be brought up in the trial but according to this NYT article Chauvin was ready to plea to third degree murder. This doesn’t prove that he was guilty but it does indicate that Chauvin believed the evidence was against him.
You’ve got appease the angry mob looting and burning down the city so maybe they decide to stop, as opposed to say just going out and arresting the angry mob.
Worth noting that unless the state gets the upward departure from the sentencing guidelines that they want (the reason they’re making these minor witnesses testify is as a specific aggravating factor that could allow it- that the crime was committed in the presence of minors), Chauvin will still only do 10 years if convicted of all charges. The top of the range for a first offender for either murder count is 15 years, and parole is possible after 2/3rds of the sentence is served.
The “environment” did not kill George Floyd. Derek Chauvin killed George Floyd.
The crowd of bystanders did not kill George Floyd. Derek Chauvin killed George Floyd.
Derek Chauvin is responsible for his own actions.
The crowd of bystanders is not responsible for Derek Chauvin’s actions.
Honest questions:
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Would Chauvin’s actions have killed Floyd absent the ‘fatal’ amount of Fentanyl in his system? The common form of death from Fentanyl overdose is respiratory failure. Does this matter?
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Is it possible that Floyd would have died anyway if they had just kept him in the cruiser? He was already claiming he couldn’t breathe before being taken to the ground, correct? Does that possibly create reasonable doubt that Chauvin killed him?
I honestly don’t know how these questions play out. Let’s say it turns out that Chauvin’s knee was not obstructing Floyd’s ability to breathe, but he went into respiratory arrest due to the Fentanyl in his system. What would Chauvin be guilty of in that case?
Let’s say instead of having him on the ground he had him cuffed and pinned against the car while Floyd claimed he couldn’t breathe, and did nothjng until Floyd collapsed to the ground and died. What would his criminal liability be in that case?
After all, if he had called an ambulance the minute Floyd said he couldn’t breathe, he’d likely be alive. But are cops liable for that kind of thing during an arrest? I honestly don’t know. And certainly cops have experience with people being arrested claiming they are being hurt, or being unable to breathe, or all kinds of things.
It seems to me that what it really comes down to is whether Chauvin was actually causing Floyd’s inability to breathe, or whether he was merely being restrained by the knee while he died of an overdose, And also maybe whether a reasonable person in that situation should respond to the claim of inability to breathe by relaxing restraints on a clearly agitated and possibly dangerous person who has been resisting arrest. But I’m not a lawyer, so I don’t really understand where the legal limits are here.
Short answer: ever had a gun pointed at you – particularly by a cop and when you were black ?
How did your body feel when it happened ?
And again: the accusation was passing a counterfeit twenty dollar bill. It’s worth repeating ad infinitum.
I am one hundred percent certain that were I in the same situation, the officers would first simply ask me to step out of the car.
With the talk of the fentanyl if Floyd’s system, my question is does that even matter given the eggshell skull doctrine?
I humbly point you to post #85 above …
According to both the ME and the doctor that pronounced him - the fentanyl was not the problem. Turns out that, unless you are a Bajau diver (or someone else who is in awesome shape and trained to hold your breath), nine minutes with a constrained air intake is likely cause cardiac arrest even if you aren’t high and don’t have Covid.
You got me wondering - how long would he have continued to kneel on Mr Floyd, had he not died? What was his goal?
the chief is very good on the stand. not many ums, or ohs.
I don’t know for certain, but wasn’t Chauvin holding Floyd there until a medic could arrive and sedate him, presumably with some sort of tranquilizer? That’s what I’ve always assumed. Wasn’t an ambulance initially called when they brought Floyd to the ground (albeit not on an emergency basis)?
I mean, are you going to ignore the rest of my post? What’s the point of simply quoting one line? Do you really not believe that GF and/or the crowd hold ANY responsibility for the outcome? Is GF not responsible for his own actions while being place under arrest? If you don’t let me ask you, is the sky blue?
And what was she wearing when she was raped?