That shows me that they did. Twenty-four hours doesn’t sound like a thorough investigation and sounds like we want to be distanced from him.
A fair point, and one that hopefully comes out at trial. As I said, I have not made up my mind, but I’m not ready to join the mob yet.
So what are you supposed to do when you have a suspect that doesn’t like the standard police accommodations? Let him out of the car and ask him nicely not to run away or hurt himself or others while you call in a limousine service?
I was also watching his testimony today and he also added that the hand-cuffed suspect could try to kick but then all the police have to do is get out of the way. So, based on that, ISTM that the police at this scene had a choice - either go down the actual path leading to this trial, or standing back and waiting for Mr Floyd to calm/settle down or for professional mental health professionals to arrive.
This was 9+ minutes of patiently kneeling on the guy. It sure didn’t look like a “heated” situation.
Dunno. I don’t watch ‘news’ anymore, and couldn’t name a ‘Pundit’ if they … uh, kicked my dog. You sound like you’ve seen the video. What do you think?
You’d have to tell me which video, which cop and at what marker
I tend to agree with this. I have seen many people saying that Floyd was just anxious and upset about being placed in the back of a police car. Well, it ain’t supposed to be an enjoyable experience, and I think most people would be anxious and upset about being arrested. Is that an excuse for resisting arrest?
Floyd is not on trial. The guy who violated procedures and killed him is on trial.
Are you actually claiming that - during the ENTIRE 9 minutes that Floyd’s face was being pressed into the ground - it was solely an attempt to subdue resistance to an arrest? And that it was done for the purpose of getting him into the back of the squad car?
Because at one point in the video, Floyd pleads that he WILL get into the car, but he’s not given any further opportunity to do so.
The cops don’t “subdue him”, then get him back in the car (which is what most cops would have done). Rather, Chauvin holds him - for about 9 minutes, until he’s dead - with a knee to the neck (your claim that it was to the upper back is decidedly contested).
For what purpose? If it was so a medic could sedate him, then it was entirely reasonable and proper to roll him on to his side, or - more humanely - put him in a seated position. A handcuffed person who is sitting down, if two cops are standing over him, isn’t going anywhere.
You handcuff him, of course. That’s what handcuffs are for, and they work very well for their purpose.
Respectfully, the fact that you refer to joining “the mob” seems to dilute your claim that you haven’t made up your mind. Just my very humble opinion.
I’m leaning towards a manslaughter conviction for Chauvin. He made a fatal mistake and has to pay the consequences.
I still want to hear the defense witnesses. It’s important to consider both sides. I doubt there is much the defense can do. The use of force policy is very clear and Chauvin didn’t follow his training.
So what do you do when a suspect continues to go completely berserk even after being handcuffed. He could bash his head into the plexiglass partition of the squad car. If you watch cop shows this is a recurring feature. If outside the car he could still ram his head into building, cars, or other people or run away.
Ever try to box for a three-minute round ? Wrestle ? It’s exhausting.
In this fateful nine minutes, we could probably get consensus around the idea that there was a point at which GF had no more fight left in him (, but hadn’t yet died).
Then you offer the back seat thing again.
As to arguments about his distress in the back of a squad car …
If he were drunk and weighed 400+ lbs, LEO would have to figure out a way to reasonably deal with that – larger car, SUV, ambulance – something.
I (again) expect more from LEOs than I do from “criminals.”
And we should never lose sight of the underlying accusation: passing a counterfeit twenty.
I get that Floyd wasn’t cooperative – so fucking what?
The problem is - and has always been - police training and police culture. Just because someone makes you mad, doesn’t obey your requests or commands doesn’t give you the right to murder someone. I don’t pay municipal taxes to fund a police department so that they can murder people who pass a counterfeit $20. We pay to keep peace and order. It’s police harassment and thuggery that actually causes many black and brown people to be uncooperative with cops in the first fuckin place.
QFT. Moreover, in any job, there is the expectation of some level of professionalism. Being provoked isn’t an excuse to escalate the level of confrontation and violence further. Shit, when I was in college, I worked in retail. It was a shit job with plenty of people who came in looking to dump their misery on poorly paid employees like me and associates. Even punk-ass college kids know you can’t just respond to provocation; you have to keep your head, or you’ll get fired.
It would be great if police officers were held to the same standards, but they’re not because we’ve bought into the notion that cops are warriors, as though they are part of some sort of domestic defense force and that they should be allowed to shoot or strangle first and ask questions later.
I don’t know what the legal definition of murder is in MN as it applies to the circumstances of this case, but I tend to agree that murder might be a harder charge to prove; I would hope that he at least gets convicted of manslaughter.
Next step is to cuff his ankles, call for an ambulance and supervisor.
This ^
Chauvin and the boys wanted to show Floyd and bystanders who’s in charge. All that was required was some patience.
The Minnesota Statutes have four definitions of Second Degree Murder. The only one that I think could apply is, causing a death “with intent to effect the death of that person or another, but without premeditation.” (The other three involve drive-by shootings, killing somebody while committing another felony, or the victim has a restraining order against the killer.)
Third Degree Murder is defined as causing a death “by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life.”