Fact: It does NOT logically matter if there are minor errors in your post, especially in GQ, because we use this board to communicate.
*If the error does not reasonably impede the communication process, then do not point it out, because it simply does not matter.
Fact: People who point out the errors do so for no logical reason. The reasons I have seen or guessed are:
They get annoyed… for no logical reason.
They point out the error in order to discredit the culprit = no logical reason.
They point out the error to make themselves feel smarter.
**I understand that this site is here to “fight ignorance”. This is the only logical reason I can think of that could warrant a comment on minor puncuation errors. But just how ignorant is it to say “it’s” instead of “its”, especially when you write dozens of posts a day and don’t usually have time to proof-read them all?
Question to the folks out there who make minor puncuation/grammar errors an issue, or point out an error when it does not interfere with the communication process: Why do you do it?
Distinguishing between “it’s” and “its” is easy. Knowing the difference between plurals, possessives, and contractions is easy. If a person can’t do the easy things, how is one to trust his ability to do the hard things – like applying logic, evaluating sources, or thinking clearly?
A typo or two can happen to anybody. That’s why every publisher in the world has proofreaders. However, when people consistently misspell the same word, or consistently confuse two easy words, it may be a sign that either (1) they are ignorant and uneducated, or (2) they are not too bright or (3) they aren’t paying attention or (4) they really don’t care about other people’s opinions of them.
In any case, if somebody can’t be bothered or is unable for some reason to do these simple, basic things, my opinion of him is decreased. Attention to detail does matter, if you want respect and credibility.
Maybe it’s easy for those of us who were edificated proper but remember ignorance is hard to eradicate if you’ve never been properly taught in the first place.
I agree with the OP completely. Part of it is of course that there is a preponderance of professional and amateur writers here. (myself included). But still, spelling correction does not count as debating ability.
Usually I make a little mental “harmless nut” note when I see someone doing that.
The quality of this post is unlikely to reflect the level of care the self-appointed proofreaders want. However, I have been mulling this issue for some time. (And being what I consider a devil’s advocate, and what is probably seen as an ass, in other threads on the topic.)
To answer the OP: My guess is that some people are eager to join in and share their knowledge, and correcting simple spelling errors and typos are an easy way to contribute. For those who are a bit shy, it’s probably easier to make in a post in which you are absolutely correct than to offer your analysis or opinion. Perhaps a few people feel that if others are not following “the rules” and carefully reviewing and rewriting their posts, then maybe these “rules” aren’t so important – a disturbing thought for one who clings to these rules for security. And, no doubt, a few of the self-appointed proofers are just jerks.
If <i>I</i> wanted to be a jerk, I could argue that the server drag from posts for minor corrections are more of a cost than a benefit in the whole SDMB experience.
Personally, given the choice between a well thought out post that addresses the OP and the rest of the thread but has a few typing and spelling errors and a post that has no usage errors, but also lacks ideas or fails to address the discussion at hand, I’ll go for insight every time. But why not both? Why one or the other?
Good question.
Here’s the deal for me. Not only am I trying to minimize my surfing time, but I’m also dealing with the AMAZINGLY SLOW and frequently unreliable message boards. So I rush. Just like when I have to run off on a quick errand and rush out of the house with wet hair wearing raggedy sweats. People might see me and think I’m a slob. Don’t care. Sometimes time constraints mean quick and sloppy has to be part of the equation. With the time saved by not dressing up, I have, in this rushing out on an errand analogy, time to carefully select the best lamb chops at the butcher shop. Some people see me as a wet-haired slob in sweat pants. Some people notice that I really know how to get the best deal at the butcher shop.
In any case, my own typos and spelling errors don’t bug me nearly as much as my simple, repetitive sentence construction and over-use of non-words such as very, much, many, some, etc. etc.
True. It is easy. So easy it is often overlooked by the individual who is immersed in their idea and is not fully aware of their typing at the time.
You replied how you feel about errors, and your post is reasonable, because it is your prerogative to judge someone’s intelligence however you want. (However, I believe “Smart where it counts” is the correct assessment of someone’s intelligence. And most definately grammar and punctuation does NOT count except when writing a book or article.) But, that’s not really the point here. Do you bring it up in a post? Point it out to everyone in the thread and make the poor culprit feel stupid for something that doesn’t matter? An error, even a series of errors, is not necessarily there because someone is unintelligent or incapable of thinking clearly. (If you feel the poster could benefit from you pointing it out, then it would be respectful to PM them with the correct grammar, rather than publicly point out their error. Even then, most of the time, the poster does indeed understand the rules of the error already, but just made of mistake, as in butrscotch’s case.)
I guess people don’t realize that it is a form of disrespect to point out a silly error. Would you point out the misuse of a word by your father-in-law at a dinner party, or even on the golf course, or anywhere for that matter? But, because we are on a MB, people think it’s different?
Remember I am talking about minor, absent minded errors here. Large, repetitive, grade school errors are a different story.
I see that butrscotch caught my joke. And it’s just my point that he messed his post up. He made a mistake by NOT spelling the word wrong. I’m sure butrscotch is an intelligent person who cares what other people think and was paying attention, but just made a mistake. Just my point. But when someone makes a mistake while pointing out someone else’s mistake, well, you gotta point that out!
I don’t have a dog in this fight. I’m not one to point out others’ mistakes, nor am I annoyed by or think less of those who do.
I did want to say, however:
It doesn’t speak of ignorance; rather, it speaks of carelessness and misplaced priorities. Someone who makes errors but doesn’t bother to proofread and correct mistakes is, to me, a person who cares more about being seen posting than posting to edify or contribute to a discussion. This is fine for the social forums, but I don’t think it belongs in a forum meant for serious, solid answers or debates.
Besides, it doesn’t make sense to me to have time to post “dozens of posts”, yet not have time to proofread. If you have time to post, you have time to proofread. It’s that simple.
Very true. Good point. Like GQ or IMHO, isn’t it okay to be loose in these places? Maybe my frame of reference is off on this subject, but it seems like unless I am on the spot about an idea, or am trying to gain respect on an issue (such as in Debates or claiming expert in a certain field), I feel like “Take my post, with or without errors, for what it’s worth… a post on a message board, on the internet, which I spent about 3 minutes on.” I guess some people take this board more seriously than I and I hope I am not being disrespectful with this attitude. If so, I would like to know, that’s sort of why I posted this.
Fuel, well, I fail to see how one could prove that “if you have time to post, you have time to proofread.” And I don’t understand how someone could assert such as thing as fact. It’s not just that simple - especially when so many people here are parents or posting from work. But I think AudreyK’s argument helps answer your original question.
However, I do understand how someone could feel that failure to proofread speaks of carelessness and different priorities.
I take your posts, Fuel, and everyone else’s for what they’re worth - a post on a message board, and so on…
Because the SDMB is a group activity, and members don’t agree about “the rules,” I suppose we’re stuck with both typos and people who feel the urge to point them out. And with the fact that most of the people who post corrections on the SDMB do not seem to be able to learn the difference between typos (which are almost always motor skill issues akin to having a stutter) and spelling and grammar mistakes (which are another kettle of fish). Additionally, many of the self-appointed usage police often either miss jokes or make their own errors when posting a correction, driving other dopers to attack with glee, and in the ensuing melee, the original point of the thread is lost…
Thanks for starting this thread. Perhaps one day the mods will start a forum for people who discuss all topics but absolutely won’t tolerate any errors. And then they’ll start a forum for people who discuss all topics but absolutely won’t be able to add a post to a thread until they pass a java-script test proving that they read and understood the OP in the that thread…
The thing is, just because the information in a post is a casual observation, or a random thought, or some hastily-conceived bit of data, it doesn’t mean it’s okay to compose it in the same haphazard fashion. You can express in proper English that your idea might not be accurate or profound. You can take away a lot from a post by making it (even partly) unintelligible to everyone else.
Speaking honestly, I tend to ignore posts that are written poorly or are only tenuously connected to the topic at hand. And I tend to ignore posters who make a habit of posting that way. I don’t think I’m the only one who does this, either. It doesn’t make much difference to me which forum you’re posting into. Whether you want to be understood or not doesn’t change depending on which forum you’re posting to. So, as I see it, neither should your writing, or the concessions you make when it comes to others’ writing. I’m not going to st@rt typng liek th$ in, say, MPSIMS, just because it’s MPSIMS, nor will I be more tolerant of someome else doing so just because it’s MPSIMS. I’m going to expect that everyone’s capable of writing reasonably proper English.
I can see the appeal of writing in a lazy, nonstandard way, where you don’t correct your errors or proofread and where you stand out. But I also think it always inevitably works to your detriment to do so, so I don’t see the point in persisting in it.
To me, it’s quite simple. If you want to be understood and respected, don’t write like you skipped out on English class throughout elementary school.
I don’t want my posts to take an inordinate amout of effort to read. I don’t want readers to be distracted by grammar, spelling, or punctuation errors. And I want to be perceived as an intelligent person with interesting or informative things to say. So I write using proper English. I don’t do it because I take this board “seriously”. I do it because I want to be seen a certain way.
I think people who nitpick about grammar and spelling errors feel similarly. They don’t want to have to put more effort than is usually necessary into reading a post. They don’t want to see a lot of errors. And to some degree, they don’t want to see a lot of nonsensical crap spread around the boards. They want to see their fellow Dopers as intelligent people.
I don’t disagree with this point of view. While I believe that every poster can and should post as they want (and as the rules permit), I can’t say I would be upset if, say, the board software began eating all posts made by chronic bad spellers or nonsense-spewers.
I guess my point is that proper English does matter.
I don’t see the point in correcting other people’s errors when it is quite clear what they were trying to say. The one exception is when someone is getting snotty about someone else’s error, and makes a mistake themselves - give them a dose of their own medicine.
Similarly, I don’t see the point in people posting corrections to obvious erros in their own post. If they care that much, they should use the preview function. In fact, I will remove the modifier - people should use the preview function, period.
Hijacking a bit further - why are there so many wannabe moderators? So many threads seem to start:
Post 1: NonPreviewer: bunch of stuff.
Post 2: NonPreviewer: minor correction to “bunch of stuff.”
Post 3: WannabeMod: this is in the wrong forum.
Post 4: TypoNazi: point out minor typo in “bunch of stuff”
Of course, I’m leaving myself wide open to people who want to point out my mistakes in this post.
Strawman! First, who said that these post were casual observations, random thoughts, or some hastily-conceived bit of data? (Assuming that there is such as thing as a hastily-conceived bit of data.) Perhaps the post with the typo or spelling error is the considered opinion of a doper who is an expert in the field.
Second, The OP was about minor typing or spelling errors, not about writing in a lazy, nonstandard way. In fact, the OP clearly states that the pass is only for errors that do not cause confusion or impede communication. My subjective opinion of you is based more on your seeming disregard for Fuel’s original question than on your typing skills. Can you understand that writing a nearly 500-word post which strays from the OP affects the way I perceive you? My subjective opinion is also based more on your weird use of the terms conceived and data than on the lack of spelling errors in your post.
But that’s just me. Perhaps your subjective opinion of me is based on my use of sentence fragments. I can live with that.
Ease off on the throttle, j.c., and read for the context. There was a reason I quoted another post. In the post I quoted, Fuel mentioned posting in a “looser” style in the less socially oriented forums. I interpreted “looser” as “not as adhering to the standards of a well-thought out or well-written post, such as the ones you might adhere to in a post to GD or GQ.” In other words, I was talking about posts that are written and submitted as quickly almost as they are conceived, without great consideration for comprehensibility.
Moreover, I was writing in response to something that Fuel wrote after the OP. The conversation had progressed. We were talking about something else.
Still with me?
Now, in a nutshell, my point was this: If you want your posts to be both read and understood, it’s in your own best interest to make sure that everyone else will find them easy to read. And if you want to be perceived in a positive way, then you need to pay attention to how your posts portray you.
I assume that because you didn’t actually address this point, you agree with it?
I meant looser as in, loose about typos or errors… I am NEVER loose about my thinking. I always try to think through my post and am never loose about portraying my idea. Now, that would be disrespect to the other dopers.
You made an assumption audreyk. The subject of this post is grammatical errors, so when I say loose, that’s what I am talking about. But, I definately understand why you thought what you did, because I was misleading in the last part of the paragraph. I was remarking how the other dopers take this board seriously. But what I meant was that I felt maybe they took this board so seriously that typo errors were of disrespect to them. I wasn’t referring to flippant and quickly-thrown-together ignorant posts. That’s out of line and I believe those posts are a poison to this board.
