Sorry folks-I won’t be back to this thread…but I must say this!
Jill–fancy seeing you here!! and responding to your own comments in the original thread. Let’s see, last time, I heard from you on the subject, You were raling and stamping your feet about how unfairly you were being treated on this subject, your parting words were: “I’m hitting reply button on the top and not going near the rest of it”
Again…important as this issue is to me, I can’t discuss it here, at this time.
To quadell: As I said before the “white” population was broken down, according to the 1971 “Information Please Almanac,” into various ethnic subdivisions: Anglo-Saxon, Mediterranean, Slavic, Scandinavian, etc. I will agree that, for general purposes, there are five “races”–white, black, American Indian, “Oriental,” and Polynesian–but I bet even these divisions are suspect. (See how Cecil treated this in “Return of the Straight Dope.”)
OK… my $.02
Minorities are created by the majority.
What does that mean? you may ask…
I’ll tell you, I say.
If we define the majority as those people guaranteed full participation and emersion in the culture, the “minorities” are those people who are excluded from that culture. Minorities, excluded from the predominant culture, will go on to form their own culture.
In our culture, the majority at some point along the line had chosen some arbitrary characteristic that, when present in an individual, excluded that individual from full participation and emersion in the predominant culture. This exclusion can be systemic and formal (in the case of slavery and Jim Crow laws) or casual and informal (such as a general attitude or misconception). It does not have to be written into law, but it can be. It just has to be that at some point in history, a group of individuals was denied full participation in the culture due to an arbitrary characteristic. All people seek participation in a culture. If denied participation in one culture, a people will form their own culture.
The next point is one people often miss: Even if the causes for the exclusion are removed, the culture that was formed because of it does NOT disappear. Thus, even though there is no more slavery, and their are laws protecting blacks from discrimination, there is still an African-American culture that is seperate and distinct from the standard American culture. Cultures, once formed, are extremely stable things.
Thus, we have minorities. Skin color is one arbitrary characteristic that seems obvious. Linguistic heritage is another. Why are people whose ancestors spoke Western Hemisphere dialects of Spanish denied full participation in the majority culture, but those whose ancestors spoke German or French not? By denying Hispanic-Americans full access to the American culture, the minority culture of Hispanic-Americans formed. Since no such exclusion occured for Franco-Americans, there is no minority class of Franco-Americans.
To quote V.I. Lenin: “What is to be done?” How do we guarantee full rights and privilages to people in a way that does not seek to eradicate their culture? People are necissarily defensive when measures are proposed that can lead to the eradication of a way of life they have always known. But we also seek equality and liberty for all people in the U.S. How do we reconcile these issues? It may take a bigger person than I to answer these questions.
Jason R Remy
“Open mindedness is not the same thing as empty mindedness.”
– John Dewey Democracy and Education (1916)
<<One comment that Jill made that nobody (to my recollection) responded to was that she’d never heard a nonwhite person say “race doesn’t matter.” This has been my experience as well. I’ve never heard a nonwhite person say “My race is human” either. Why do y’all think that would be? Is it because nonwhites think race should matter? Or because their experience has been that it does?
Do any actual nonwhite people on this board want to get a word in?>>
The only non-white people I have heard say that are members of the Ba’hai faith. (sp?) An article of their faith is that it’s immoral to recognize any distinction among the races. They’ll tell you they belong to the Human Race.
Non-whites KNOW race matters. The only place where non-whites have the luxury of pretending that it doesn’t might be cyberspace. I’m curious: I know male friends who’ve pretended to be women on the net; does anyone have any experience of intentionally “passing” as another race?
Yes, I know a situation where a white person that I know on a local message board passed himself off as black. It’s pretty easy to do.
I’ve surfed quite a bit and I rarely encounter blacks on the internet. Why is that?
Contestant #3
Yes, I know a situation where a white person that I know on a local message board passed himself off as black. It’s pretty easy to do.
I’ve surfed quite a bit and I rarely encounter blacks on the internet. Why is that? -Contestant #3
Ummm…how would you know if you had? 
Seriously, an upper income black or hispanic family is almost as likely to use the 'net regularly as is a white family of the same socio-economic level, although poor folks of pretty much any description are slow to get wired. It’s statistically less likely that poor blacks and latinos will use the net than poor whites but that gap seems to have shrunk this year.
I have a friend who volunteers teaching inner-city Chicago kids to become UNIX programmers. The first assignment he gives them is to look up starting salaries on the net. When these children see the starting salaries are 10X what their parents can make, BOY do they get excited!
But back to your Black Like Me friend: how did he or she make out? Did they find anything different about the experience?
Can I become African American?
Don’t laugh - it is rumored that there will be a layoff where I work…it might be good for me to become a member of a minority group.
If I was challenged in court, how could the government dis-prove my claim?
Is it enough to have a dark complexion, eat soul food, listen to the blues?
Suppose I found out that my grat-graet grandfather was black-would that make me an afro-american?
For that matter, can I claim to be a hispanic ? (I like Mexican food).
Gene, the joke at a company I worked for during layoffs was that we were all Gay. Let’s see them disprove that one.
actually, the burden of proof would be on proving that you were layed off * because * you were african-american. It may be hard to believe, but perfectly legal for companies to lay-off, fire, or do anything of the sort to african-americans so long as it is for a reason other than their race. So even if you did claim that you were african-american, you’re company could still lay you off because you didn’t have the seniority, or even because your ignorant and dim-witted buffoon. And they could do this even if you were, in reality, African-American…
BTW, skin tone has little to do with race. Indians (the kind from asia, not america) are Caucasians despite the fact that their skin color may be much darker than say, the Xhosa of South Africa. And the skin color in India has a wide range itself.
Jason R Remy
“One pill makes you taller, and one pill makes you small, but the ones that mother gives you don’t do anything at all”
– Jefferson Airplane * White Rabbit * (Slick, G. 1966)
{{{The only non-white people I have heard say that are members of the Ba’hai faith. (sp?) An article of their faith is that it’s immoral to recognize any distinction among the races. They’ll tell you they belong to the Human Race.}}}—DianneCar
–Kalél
(The Original EnigmaOne)
Common ¢ for all ages.
Kalel says: "Interesting. Although I would find myself at juxtaposition with other articles of the Ba’hai (sp? - me too) faith, I have lived my life in accordance with the quoted material, with the exception of the use of the word “race.” Nit-picky? Maybe, but I actually see far more sense in the term “ethnicity.”
I see your point. I don’t lose sleep over the distinction but, you’re right, we’re all humans. Now if we could just learn to treat each other that way…
Oh, someone had asked about black folks on the 'net. This morning I learned that black American consumers spent a little over $750 Million on computers and computer products in 1997. This figure doesn’t even include purchases by blacks in ecommerce, nor does it include black-owned businesses. Thought it interesting.