So who are we (Census question)?

Factual Questions
1

Idle minds an’ all…

OK, so I’m filling out my Census form (because we want as many Texans in the House as we can manage) and I’m faced with filling in question 6: What is this person’s race?

A few thoughts occur, and I post this in GQ rather than GD because I hope somebody can proffer definitive answers to my questions.

Noting the categories available, and being aware of some parts of the federal government’s policy that race is not defineable, and what a person says they are is what they are, I’m curious about the breakdown.

Are Chinese and Vietnamese (separate choices) that much more different than Turks and Norwegians (who are both, presumably, white). I also notice that there is a selection choice for Black, African American, or Negro (I haven’t even heard the word “Negro” in years, but I suppose the form is written to encompass replies by older blacks who may actually prefer that designation) - that wording can be taken to imply that there are three different groups, anyone of which might check in here. We know there’s not, it’s just politicized wording - or is it? What is race? What is ethnicity? It’s, I suspect, for most people, like pornography in the sense that you can’t easily build a definition that will sustain hard scrutiny (Prove I’m not black - what standards are there?), but, “I know it when I see it.”

Must we lump all the Vietnamese together? No choice for the Hmong? Yeah, yeah, I know, there’s the other category.

So, am I being remiss in my fulfillment of my civic duties if I respond as an “other” (Viking)?

And I know there’s at least a few SDMBers who’ve contemplated a Census form of late; we haven’t even gotten to the ethnicity question yet. I’m thinking of putting down “American.” Thoughts on that?

(I hope this does not generate mindless flame - really, I’d like to hear the current state of thought on the questions - but if it does, Nickrz and manny, apologies in advance and ship us off to where we need to be.)

Much more could be added,…I’m sure y’all will.

2

Here he goes again, guys. Who’ll handle it this time? :stuck_out_tongue:

3

If you can clear the waters, Diceman, I’d love to hear about it. Have you got something to offer?

4

I think it’s mostly a means to divide them into meaningful numbers. For example, the Native American. If that were divided by tribe, the numbers would become fairly meaningless percentages compared to the number choosing Caucasian or Hispanic. As is, the census just gives us a rough guess as to what part of the world people are coming from, I don’t think we need to know as percise of information as could be collected. If it irks the people from North Phang Sou to be lumped in with South Phang Sou, then tough… it irks me to be lumped in with the french!

http://www.madpoet.com
I am human, and I need to be loved
Just like anybody else does

5

Avoiding for the moment the discussions of How we should respond? and Are their questions legitimate/meaningful/useful/provocative?, you can get an idea of what they are looking for and why they are looking for it by going to the census department’s web pages:

http://www.census.gov/
and
http://www.bls.census.gov/

Wandering around in there, (and I don’t remember the exact location), I came across the published discussions of the criteria that the Census Bureau used to establish their various ethnic categories.

Basically, it amounts to petitions by various groups for identification. It might be the ethnic group, itself, looking to establish itself either as a recognizable minority or as population that wants to be identified separately from similar groups. It might be the CDC or the Justice Department looking for base figures to compute statistics in a meaningful way in pursuit of some other goal.

The Census people wrangle over the definitions, the terms, the in and out lists, etc., eventually agreeing on the form that we see every ten years.

Tom~

6

This was one of the sites I had seen. I haven’t found the other two, yet. It is issued by the Office of Management and Budget.

Tom~

7

I guess it would have been nice to actually paste in the URL: shheeeeshh

http://www.whitehouse.gov/OMB/fedreg/ombdir15.html

8

I’m surprised this subject is still causing so much discussion. It seems the Census Bureau is fretting over the low initial response rate, something around 55%. From reading editorials and this and other message boards, I get the idea that a very large number of people have answered the race question with “human” or “American”. I wonder how the Feds are going to handle this data. Will we have a new minority in this country of humans? Will they list them as X% “refused to answer”, or will they just sweep the whole thing under the rug?

9

Just from observing who is saying they are going to list their race as “human”, I think it will be a fair bet that the Census Bureau can just change all of those answers to “white”.
“American” is not a race; it’s a nationality. “Southern” (another popular answer, where I live) is also not a race…there are Southerners of all races.

I apologize if that sounded at all hostile; I just get frustrated that so many people are making this such an issue. I think Tom’s suggestion to check out the Census Bureau’s website to gain further insight is right on. As for me, I have all sorts of different races flowing through my bloodstream, but I’ve always thought of myself as white, so that’s what I checked.

10

C3 said:
> “American” is not a race; it’s a
> nationality.

Race isn’t a strictly defined term. It’s what you “consider yourself to be”, which is why they ask it in those terms. As you yourself said:
> but I’ve always thought of myself as
> white, so that’s what I checked.

See? It’s not a biological distinction. It’s your opinion, what racial group you consider yourself to be a part of. If someone considers his race to be “American”, I don’t say how anyone can say that’s inaccurate.

Your Quadell

P.S. It may be accurate that the majority of those in the “American” race would be considered “white” by their neighbors, but if you were to change all of those races categorically to white, you would be applying a racial stereotype. (The stereotype that “Only white people do that.”) Of course I’d object. Besides, the census doesn’t ask what race C3 would consider me. . . If you were to change anyone’s “race” box from what he considers himself to what you consider him, then it would be innacurate information.

11

quadell, I didn’t mean to imply that all Americans are “white.” All I meant was that it seems (from my observations) that all of the people who think it’s reasonable to put down “human”, “American”, or “Southern” are white people peeved off about race relations in America. It’s like a bunch of middle class white guys complaining that they’re oppressed. (And, really, I don’t mean to turn this into a GD, I’m just stating my opinion).

I think you’re partially right about “nationality” = “race”. According to my dictionary, “race” is a family, tribe, people, or nation of the same stock. I think of the same stock is an important part of the definition. So Americans, who pride ourselves on being a big conglomeration of all races, creeds, religions, etc. are not of one race. Japanese people, on the other hand, could be considered a race, since their nation was until relatively recently completely isolated and they basically all come from the same “stock”. But a white guy born and raised in Japan would not call himself Japanese when asked his race. He would call himself white or Caucasian. When asked his nationality, he would say Japanese.

12

And another thing (I have an awful habit of posting, then going back, reading the entire thread, and realizing I have something to add)…

Race is not completely subjective. While you’re right, quadell, about your race not being a matter for me to decide, there are definitely some things you could put down that just aren’t true, and thus, would be wrong. For instance, I could put down “Martian” as my race…that’s what I feel like calling myself, so who’s to argue? It would be incorrect, though. Even there are some grey areas in the question, it’s not an anything goes situation.

13

I may not be remembering correctly because I sent mine in months ago, but I believe on my form after you checked race, there was another question about your background. Therefore if you checked “white” the second question would be where you narrowed it down to “Viking.” I suppose I gave them too much information because I stated that I was of German descent on my father’s side, but my mother was adopted, so I’m only sure of his half. Does the “short-form” only ask the one question about race?

“That’s impossible! Cartman doesn’t know a rainforest from a Pop-Tart!”
“Yes I do! Pop-Tarts are frosted!”

14

Yeah, it does, but you can check as many boxes as you want. So if you have a mix of Korean, African-American, and Cuban, you’d check 'em all off.

15

The form I’ve got asks what race you are and follows that with a question asking you to describe your background or ethnicity; that’s the one that I might answer with “American” (of Canadian descent).

16

Hardly two [scientists] agree as to the number and composition of the
races. Thus one scholar makes an elaborate classification of twenty-nine
races; another tells us there are six; Huxley gives us four; Kroeber three;
Goldenweiser, five; and Boas inclines to two, while his colleague, Linton,
says there are twelve or fifteen. Even my dullest students sometimes note
this apparent contradiction.

---- Brewton Berry, “A Southerner Learns about Race,” Common Ground (1942)

…so this may throw things into GD for good…but here goes…So WHO is white (or black,native,asian…) As a nation we are indoctrinated into beliving the theory of hypo-descent (one-drop rule) , at least I was, wherin, for example, a preponderence of “white blood” (ancestory) cannot make a “black” person “white” and a fraction of “black blood” qualifies one as “black”…or at least “non-white”…Ok? new example: Heather Locklear,ostensibly white and yet her surname is one associated with the largest group of tri-racial peoples in the US, the Lumbee tribe of NC…at least according to this:“Another family whose name is a giveaway for their African heritage is that of Locklear - yes the same one that Heather, the
blond bombshell of the TV series, “Melrose Place,” claims as her own.”- found here:http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/secret/famous/locklear.html
According to Shirley Haizlips book "The Sweeter the Juice : A Family Memoir in Black and White " somewhere on the order of 95% of “blacks” in the US can claim significant European ethnicity and up to 80% of American “whites” can claim significant African ethnicity, if fact the probability increases with the number of generations that ones family has been in the North America…(news to the DAR types, eh?)…it has just been within the last century that the Irish have been accorded the “honor” of a white classification, and Jews too (I know a gentleman,now 68, on whose birth certificate, under race, is written “Hebrew”.) are now seen as white rather than “others” with sinister “asiatic” forebearers.
…hope this muddies the waters :frowning:

17

We are all African-American. Our ancestors all lived in Africa a mere 100,000 years ago.
People whose ancestors lived in Europe must have ancestors who passed through South-western Asia at one time.
Anyone who has played trivial pursuit know that there is only one race of humans (according to some “experts” anyway) so that human is an acceptable answer under “Other”.
According to some vague family tradition, I am supposed to be 1/64 Abenaki Indian.
Therefore I checked 4 boxes. I suggest you do the same.

18

Beatle, I once had a job in a prison where I interviewed all incoming prisoners and asked them a series of questions. One of them was what ethnic group they belonged to. My policy was to write down any response they gave me. If a man who appeared to me to be Black said he was Black, Negro, African American, Bilalian, or Korean, I’d write it down. I always figured you can be whatever ethnic identity you want and it’s up to you to decide.

19

Excuse me for intruding… On my Census form … I circled all the choices placed an asterisk next to the circle put HUMAN in other and attached a letter of explanation…

While I agree in general principal with the majority of what has been previously posted. There are three major things / issues that I am compelled to comment about. The fourth item is more of a personal reaction to what I perceived as an underlaying attitude. I know I did not follow normal procedures for quoting / citing so forgive / indulge me.

I firmly believe there is ONLY ONE RACE (1). I resent the attempt by government (or others) to label, classify or subdivide for less than legitimate purposes. While I am not a revolutionary or reactionary I do not fully trust the motives of politicians, the media, organized religions, social activist, and most self proclaimed “Liberals & Conservatives” be it individuals or organizations(2). I find it interesting that in general one can choose to identify themselves with a particular ethnic group but for White / Caucasian it is based on predefined acceptable backgrounds (3).

(1)
posted 04-07-2000 09:41 AM bibliophage

We are all African-American. Our ancestors all lived in Africa a mere 100,000 years ago. People whose ancestors lived in Europe must have ancestors who passed through South-western Asia at one time.
Anyone who has played trivial pursuit know that there is only one race of humans (according to some “experts” anyway) so that human is an acceptable answer under “Other”.

posted 04-07-2000 09:27 AM writefetus
Hardly two [scientists] agree as to the number and composition of the races. Thus one scholar makes an elaborate classification of twenty-nine races; another tells us there are six; Huxley gives us four; Kroeber three;
Goldenweiser, five; and Boas inclines to two, while his colleague, Linton, says there are twelve or fifteen. Even my dullest students sometimes note this apparent contradiction.

(2)
Member Posts: 1910 Registered: Apr 99 posted 04-05-2000 09:55 PM
I think it’s mostly a means to divide them into meaningful numbers. If it irks the people from North Phang Sou to be lumped in with South Phang Sou, then tough… it irks me to be lumped in with the french!
tomndebb
Basically, it amounts to petitions by various groups for identification. … It might be the CDC or the Justice Department looking for base figures to compute statistics in a meaningful way in pursuit of some other goal.

posted 04-05-2000 10:11 PM Avoiding for the moment the discussions of How we should respond? and Are their questions legitimate/meaningful/useful/provocative?,.

posted 04-06-2000 09:16 AM TNTruth
I’m surprised this subject is still causing so much discussion. It seems the Census Bureau is fretting over the low initial response rate, something around 55%. From reading editorials and this and other message boards, I get the idea that a very large number of people have answered the race question with “human” or “American”. I wonder how the Feds are going to handle this data. Will we have a new minority in this country of humans? Will they list them as X% “refused to answer”, or will they just sweep the whole thing under the rug?
posted 04-06-2000 09:44 AM
Just from observing who is saying they are going to list their race as “human”, I think it will be a fair bet that the Census Bureau can just change all of those answers to “white”.
----------(3)
According to Shirley Haizlips book "The Sweeter the Juice : A Family Memoir in Black and White " somewhere on the order of 95% of “blacks” in the US can claim significant European ethnicity and up to 80% of American “whites” can claim significant African ethnicity, if fact the probability increases with the number of generations that ones family has been in the North America…(news to the DAR types, eh?)…it has just been within the last century that the Irish have been accorded the “honor” of a white classification, and Jews too (I know a gentleman, now 68, on whose birth certificate, under race, is written “Hebrew”.) are now seen as white rather than “others” with sinister “Asiatic” forbearers. …hope this muddies the waters

---- Brewton Berry, “A Southerner Learns about Race,” Common Ground (1942)
…so this may throw things into GD for good…but here goes. So WHO is white (or black, native, Asian…) As a nation we are indoctrinated into believing the theory of hypo-descent (one-drop rule) , at least I was, wherein, for example, a preponderance of “white blood” (ancestry) cannot make a “black” person “white” and a fraction of “black blood” qualifies one as “black”…or at least “non-white”…Ok?

posted 04-06-2000 09:44 AM
I apologize if that sounded at all hostile; I just get frustrated that so many people are making this such an issue. I think Tom’s suggestion to check out the Census Bureau’s website to gain further insight is right on. As for me, I have all sorts of different races flowing through my bloodstream, but I’ve always thought of myself as white, so that’s what I checked.

20

(4)
I am a single male under the age of Thirty-Five … who in most circle would be labeled / stereotyped as an “AT - Risk Minority (person of color)” I Listed HUMAN on my FORM