It asks me what race I am. It says that Hispanic is no longer a race.
I could pass for White in some areas but I feel stupid saying I am white. I am not. I am certainly not African American, although there is plenty of African in my blood. Nor Asian of any flavor.
Like about 80% of the Hispanics north of Paraguay, I am brown. If I had to choose one from the mix that is my “race” (and let’s not get started on how there is only one race, because the form is asking for it), it would have to be what Columbus called Indian. My wife would be Taino, if the particular tribe matters (and it should since they ask for tribe if you answer Native American). I know I am some flavor of Caribe but I couldn’t really be more specific than that.
What should I answer then?
Am I “Native American: Uncertain”? What is the average Jose supposed to mark?
The average Jose is supposed to check off what he is in box 8, which gives a number of options, including a blank to indicate more specific heritage. The first option is “not Hispanic”, the second is for those of Mexican descent, the third is for Puerto Ricans, the fourth is for Cubans, and the last is an “other”, which helpfully provides a space to fill in “Taino” or “Caribe” or whatever. Question 9 covers all other races.
So calm down. The Census cares about brown people.
I know they do and I love that they force Hispanics to identify themselves so we don’t lose help because of Latinos who like to call themselves White.
But I still have to answer question 9. For question 8 I will specify Venezuelan and my wife will mark Puerto Rican so there is no need for Taino or Caribe there. My problem is with question 9. The form says I have to answer BOTH (in ALL CAPS) so having identified as Hispanic in 8 doesn’t rid me from having to answer 9 where there is no right option for me to mark.
Sorry I didn’t see you the first time around. I think that if you get too creative they call you. I want to help and be counted but I don’t care to spend more time on this than I have to.
People who use Hispanic to describe race are using it incorrectly. A blond blue eyed boy in Argentina, a black man in Cuba, and a brown woman from Mexico are all Hispanic.
Heh, I remember a Latina in my high school health class who was quite upset to find out that the chart breaking down diseases by race lumped Latinos in with whites.
I certainly can’t tell you that as there is no objective definition of race. I will tell you that the census form as an “other” entry that you can fill in yourself.
Odesio
I find it interesting whenever I encounter someone who says that so-n-so isn’t using race correctly. Hey man, just because your social definition of race/Hispanic clash doesn’t mean that everyone else is in agreement with you.
I’m not normally in the habit of picking a word and defining it all by my lonesome. Part of the reason I don’t do this because I’m not that creative. For the most part, I don’t define words all by my lonesome because it defeats the purpose of having a standardized language. Anyone who is using Hispanic to describe race is using the word incorrectly. I didn’t define the word I’m just using it correctly. But, hey man, if you want to use it to describe race I’m certainly not going to stop you.
I honestly don’t know. A friend of mine was a census taker back in 2000 and he ran into a Jordanian man who didn’t know how to answer the race question. The man ended up listing his race as “Other-Jordanian” because nothing else made sense to him. That okay, the census questions on race are about self-perception. I do think you bring up a valid problem, Sapo, but it’s a problem inherent in any racial classification system.
Since it is all about self perception (and this should make orcenio happy) I would just put down whatever you think yourself to be. Brown? Fine. Hispanic, Latino, Chicano, or whatever? Fine.
Incidentally this isn’t a new problem. The 1990 and 200 census are pretty much the same when it comes to race questions.
No doubt you didn’t come to your conclusions by yourself, but as there are people who agree with you, there are people who don’t. This happens because race itself is defined/outlined by social conventions, these things change in differing social circles.
I agree the form design for Q9 will produce a lot of head scratching for folks who came from Latin America, or whose ancestors did.
It’s almost as if the form designers thought of “white” as the default if you aren’t one of the enumerated choices.
There are certainly folks from Latin America who have some legitimate geneological basis to consider themselves to be Caucasian (“white” on the form). But they are a minority amongst the total US Latino population.
Yes, there is is an “other” choice on the form but expecting some 15-ish percent of the US populace to choose “other” and enter things like Sapo is describing is just plain lousy forms design.
Given the level of tribal detail they have for the flavors of Asian & Pacific islanders, logic would dictate they expect the same for the tribes living south of San Diego.
I also like that it says you can mark one or more boxes for Q9, but there isn’t a practical option for providing more than one “other”. If I was a mix of European, African, and Cherokee, I could put that on the form. But if I was a mix of Aztec & Mayan, I’m out of luck.
The categories doubtless spring from some legislation or regulation that, as so often, was more rooted in politics than it was in reality. Way to go, Congress.
This isn’t new. For decades, there have been separate questions about (1) race and (2) ethnicity or Hispanic origin. Ever since they started asking questions about Hispanic origin (since 1970 at least), the census bureau has always considered it to be an ethnicity, not a race. Hence the frequently encountered disclaimer that “Hispanics may be of any race.” http://www.census.gov/population/www/socdemo/compraceho.html
Sapo, why don’t you tell us who your ancestors were? Tell us what race they were and where they came from. Go back as far as possible on your family tree. All you’ve told us is what your ancestors aren’t. If you want an answer from us that would be an objective analysis of your heredity, that’s what we would have to know. If all you want from us is our opinions about how the census questions should be answered, that’s probably a Great Debates thread rather than a General Questions one.
Like anyone else designing a survey questionnaire, the Census has to draw their lines in certain places. The question of Hispanic origin isn’t intended to slice heritage down to every last great-great-grandparent. If that were the case, the form would have to be ten pages long to account for every possible combination of every possible ethnic or racial demographic group, and that’s just not feasible. So they have blanks so people can self-identify whatever they mostly happen to be, and if you’re half-and-half, you flip a coin. It’s far from perfect, and the Census knows that.
In terms of LSLGuy’s example of being Aztec and Mayan, the Census doesn’t care that much about that; they’d prefer you identify as Mexican-American. Part of the reason is because Census data is used to determine the need and funding levels for programs based on ethnicity; the program would be developed for Mexican-Americans, not for Aztecs or Mayans. If the agency responsible for the program wants to know how the tribal breakdown works out, they can ask their participants themselves.
Finally, the demographic data is used not to identify specific individuals, but to plot overall population trends. For example, if a community’s population shows a young population, it knows it has to plan for more schools and other services that cater to children and younger adults. Conversely, if it shows an older population, it needs to plan for senior centers, transportation services, and so forth. If there is a large, say, Hmong population, that may indicate a need for bilingual teachers, community programs, and so forth.
This is in addition to ensuring compliance with various federal and state laws, as well as Congressional redistricting. As I said, it’s far from perfect, but it’s what we’ve got.
Italian on the mother side, all the way back to Romulus.
My father is one eight British but all Venezuelan as far back as the 1700’s when the first of my last name landed from Spain, according to my grandmother.
Exactly what “Venezuelan” means is the tricky part. On both the maternal and paternal side of my father’s side there are plenty of “Indians” and they do look the part. Short, bronze-cinnamon skinned, straight black heavy hair. Exactly as they appear on the illustrations of Columbus landing on the Americas.
My paternal family name is well traced back to Spain but all the branches are rather vague as it often happens with illegitimate children of the Spaniards with their slaves. We were not a prominent family with a taste for preserving blood purity.
My father himself does look like your average Latino. Tanned skin, black hair, more or less fine features. Short limbs, barrel shaped trunk. Again, no idea of exactly what native Americas tribe that would be beyond saying “Caribe” which is the generic for everything in the area.
I personally look northern Italian with their build, facial features and light eyes, but with darker skin.
My wife’s race would be a lot easier. She is Puerto Rican which pegs her indian heritage as Taino (which are part of the Caribe group, I believe but don’t know for sure, this is all going on my elementary school memories, don’t think I know what I am talking about). Her father is from a region of the island that was heavy on black slaves and he does look the part with very dark skin and perfect teeth. Her European heritage is all Spanish.
Her blend is very even. A good balance of “indian”, black and Spanish.
I understand your points. What trips me is that they do offer a very fine level of detail for Asian and Native American but no obvious answer for Hispanics. Once they established we are Hispanics in Q8, we then have to answer Q9 and there is no answer that makes any sense. And this is for a rather large percentage of the US population.
Most Hispanics in the US are Mexican or Caribbean and certainly not White or African American or Native American (as normally understood) or Asian or from the Pacific Islands. As for our indian heritage, we mostly don’t know what tribes we came from because this all happened centuries ago. Do they really expect 15% of the US population to mark Other and then get all creative in defining “Other”?
It is fine that they are most interested in the Mexican/Uruguayan bit more than the Mayan/Olmec bit but we still have to put something on Q9.
This isn’t so much a recommendation as to what you should put down as an explanation of what I would put down if I had your ancestry:
I would put down “White” for your race. I would probably put down that you were Hispanic and put in “Venezuelan” in the box for other Hispanic country of origin. You could equally well put down “White” and call yourself non-Hispanic. You’re 50% Hispanic, so it could go either way. In any case, I would say that you should call yourself “White.” More than half of your ancestry is European. If I were you, in most social situations, if someone asked my ancestry, I would say “Half Venezuelan and half Italian.” If pressed, I would say with some native American ancestry. (And, I guess, with some African ancestry, but I can’t figure out from your posts if that’s so.)
Your ancestry doesn’t even sound that exotic to me. Many, and perhaps most, Americans have ancestry as mixed as yours. Heck, a lot have considerably more mixed ancestry. When someone calls themselves Hispanic, it’s understood that their ancestors were probably a mixture of Europeans and native Americans (and possibly Africans). I know a lot of people who look obviously white but will mention that they have one-sixteenth or one-thirty-secondth American Indian ancestry. Nobody thinks of them as being American Indians. I think the rule is that you’re whatever the majority of your ancestors are.
