It’s the host’s decision who to keep. Either the women and their allies leave because they’re sick of the “LOLBoobs, amirite?!” comments, or the LOLBoobs crowd leaves because the host tells them that behaviour isn’t acceptable. As it stands, the board moderators are choosing to keep the LOLboobsians. Fine, it’s their board.
But don’t act like it’s some harsh imposition of theocratic political correctness to ask the host to say “guys, cut it out with the LOLBoobs stuff.” Don’t act like it’s some striving for opinion uniformity and lockstep liberal viewpoints. And don’t act like it suddenly becomes bantown for a single infraction, either. There’s an existing mechanism for warning people off of unacceptable behaviour, and banning them if they can’t live within those limits.
OTOH, I suspect that you and Bricker and John Mace and others of a frequently minority opinion wouldn’t have much trouble living within those constraints. And after some whining, a lot of the LOLBoobsians wouldn’t either.
BTW, I’m not calling for banning Chen et al. because they start or participate in racial IQ threads. My suspicion is that, if the obviously racist and uninformative side of those debates got called out and warned, you’d still be able to discuss performance gaps by race, you just wouldn’t have them shitting up every discussion.
If lissener can be prevented from discussing Showgirls, surely the scientific racists can be prevented from dropping a bunch of bogus statistical bigotry at every opportunity.
I’m having a hard time understanding why we are valuing our ability to be jerks over the comfort of long time members of our community. If it was my party, some people would be told to knock it off, it’s a party of my friends and I want everyone to enjoy themselves and I’m not interesting in them treating other people like crap. And if that’s what they want to do, there are other places they can go. It isn’t my party however, so I’m asking the hosts of the party to consider the atmosphere they are condoning.
I like debate. I like the exchange of ideas. I don’t want people to agree with me. And I find the flippant insults around here to be funny more often than not. But I also value respect. We are asking for respect, do we deserve respect, or not?
And note, I’m not threatening to leave. Whether you respect me or not, it’s my decision to add my voice here or not, as long as I follow the board rules, which the number one rule is don’t be a jerk.
I haven’t read the thread so forgive me if this has been mentioned in the thread already, but isn’t misogyny technically against the rules? It is hate speech against a specific gender. Isn’t hate speech prohibited on this board? Just askin’.
It was a rhetorical question because hate speech is against the rules, and the fact that it is not allowed in the Pit and it says in the registration agreement:
…proves that. So the point I was trying to make is that by that logic, isn’t mysogyny against the board rules because it is basically hate speech against women by men?
How do the moderators define the “don’t be a jerk” rule? It’s pretty subjective, and dependent on context. We just want misogynistic comments moderated under “don’t be a jerk”, not separately, not with any extra rules. Just start paying attention to the jerkish things people are saying with the express purpose of pissing off women. You can even consider it a form of trolling if you want.
Yes, it is. And it’s intended to be a very general guideline that allows us to moderate posts that are unacceptably offensive or insulting or otherwise stupid. A lot of the stuff that was originally banned under “don’t be a jerk” is now called by more specific terms like trolling or personal insults or threadshitting and so on.
I understand this and I have no problem with it.
Comments can run afoul of the jerk rule without being intended to piss people off; as you go on to say, that comes closer to trolling.
You just banned teasing. Any reasonable poster will now refrain from posting something he considers a completely friendly, teasing post, just to be careful about being accusing of trolling.
Really? Just like “don’t be a jerk” banned teasing? Knock it off. Nobody’s saying you can’t tease people anymore, they’re just saying don’t be a misogynist asshole and you’re acting like it’s going to restrict some deep seated right or a common method of communicating on a message board. It’s not. Get real.
I think all of this is reasonable and essentially what the people in this thread are asking for. No rule changes, no “banned naughty words”, just take into consideration that jerkish behavior can have a misogynist slant and moderate it the same way every other jerk would be moderated.
She didn’t ban anything that’s not already against the rules. And I’m not much moved by a defense of teasing. One person’s teasing is another person’s being an asshole.
I think that’s reasonable. The question is how it’s applied specifically.
In my humble opinion, I think the moderators should rely on the “don’t be a jerk” rule as less as possible. I think they should try to name specific violations as much as they can, and whenever they do see something that is jerkish that doesn’t quite have a specific rules violation that goes with it, then use the jerk rule. It seems to me that the more you rely on the jerk rule, the more inconsistent the moderation can become.
So instead of hate speech being classified as being a jerk, I think it should have its own warning.
lissener was told he couldn’t discuss Showgirls anymore.
Reeder was told he had to limit his GWB insults to one Pit thread a month.
Handy was not allowed to post shitty medical advice in GQ.
Evil Captor was prohibited from talking about bondage.
Yet apparently people can’t be moderated when it comes to (having a history of saying) sexist/misogynistic things. How does THAT work?
It does. I personally rarely use it because it can lead to tiresome debates about what hate speech is and whether hate speech laws or rules should exist - whereas if you call it being a jerk, people don’t really have an issue with it.
Not true, although you may be right about lissener (I was not involved in either of these discussions as a mod). Evil Captor was told to post less about bondage because he was being a one-trick pony and was annoying/creeping out other posters. We rarely tell posters not to post about any particular topic. handy was one example long, long ago because of the bad medical advice. Like I said, I haven’t read all of the threads in question, but I thought this was a general issue and not a request for modding/banning specific posters for repeated sexism. Most of the “scientific racist” posters have indeed been modded for bringing up their views in threads where they didn’t belong.
I just want to check in to say that I too would like to see sexist remarks fall under the “don’t be a jerk”-rule.
I’ve just read through the whole thread. It makes me really sad. I think perhaps the saddest part is the people telling us to do something about it when we encounter misogyny: this is us doing something about it. Hello! Check it out, read the thread. It’s not whining about people being meanies. It’s taking action against the problem. But here you see it: speaking up is always met with derision. If you counter someone who makes some hilarious wisecrack about LOLboobs you should “get a sense of humour”, you should “man up”, you should “stop being hysterical”, you should “stop censoring free speech”, you should “go to a message board for pussies”.
Well, consider action taken. And behold the reaction.
Could someone PM me about that other message board? It sounds nice.
And Shakes, thanks for the apology.
For the record, I woke up this morning with 4 new PMs from female Dopers saying they also want to leave, mostly based on the comments in this thread. There’s much discussion about alternate boards that don’t allow sexist nonsense. The number of posters who have messaged me is now over 10 and all relatively popular posters here. Not one of these folks is a delicate flower, but rather the typical bad ass we expect around these parts. Even badasses get tired of stupidity.
Like I said, I expect the typical “don’t let the door hit you on the ass” comments, but in the interest of information, there it is. I’m going to urge these women to come forward with their feelings, but I of course can’t force them.
ETA: and boom, there’s another one right above my post. Add them to the list.
I don’t have a list of names I want warned, all I want is to see more of what you did with akennet: flagging a particular piece of his content and warning him against it. If a poster is continually warned and fails to address the behaviour, you’ve got various options. What I want to see, and I think what a lot of posters like ladyfoxfire want to see, is those warnings. It creates a behavioural norm that “lolboobs” comments aren’t acceptable, “girls girls, calm down” isn’t acceptable, and “get the sand out of your vagina” isn’t acceptable. Some will stop doing it, some will leave, but more importantly new members will see where the boundaries are and implicitly stay within them.
And for a lot of posters, it’ll likely be an education in what’s actually pissing off some members.