Actually I think you are calling for banning them because you can’t stop them any other way.
You could still discuss it. You just couldn’t come up with any arguments the majority doesn’t like.
It’s not “obviously racist and uninformative” just because you can’t shut it down by screaming “THERE’S NO SUCH THING AS RACE!!!” every other post. Just like it isn’t misogynistic to point out that No doesn’t always mean No, or that saying “Cite?” isn’t such a horrible assault on an innocent woman who posts a thread specifically about how amazing her blouse makes her boobs look.
You liberals are fond of telling those of us who are a minority on these boards how we should suck it up and quit whining. If that is good advice, why don’t you take it once in a while?
Since I’m posting from my phone in fragments of time:
It’s not just sexist/misogynistic things that bother me. The racist bullshit has pissed me off for a long time. I’ve also been dismayed (if not outright appalled) at things that have been said about trans* people.
DiosaBellissima, I am not sure what you expect to accomplish by announcing on other people’s behalf that they’re leaving or maybe they’re leaving. I’m listening and we’re taking this seriously; meanwhile those kinds of announcements are just going to get other people to say “don’t let the door hit you.”
Honestly the bullshit in this thread has me way more bent on leaving than the pit threads.
The Pit threads don’t even bother me, I know people are going to be unabashed assholes there, I have participated, that’s not even a problem (although some in this thread would be under the mistaken impression that’s what this discussion is about). It’s to have a thread in ATMB to discuss the issue, and the responses range from “stop being such a girl”, “oh now we just cater to children and the lowest common denominator so the pussies can have their pussified message board”, “stop being hysterical, yes I am saying this to piss you off”, “my mom said you need to just buck up and stop being such a woman”, “oh now we won’t be allowed to joke or tease or make any statements since now the FEMINISTS have won and can have their FEMINIST echo chamber”, “does this bother you? Well you can’t complain about it because it’s NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS”, “suck it up and quit whining”.
Actually defending their actions in plain words about why they should be allowed to go on being assholes and why we should just toughen up. Newsflash, this isn’t about being tough. It’s about you being an asshole. Nobody wants to associate with people who are assholes, let alone a community of people who get along and interact on a daily basis. You want your right to be an asshole and make deliberately inflammatory statements directed at one gender and not get warned about it, we get it. Not everybody likes that community, MEN AND WOMEN ALIKE.
It’s almost as though we don’t even need to provide examples of such culture, just open this thread and see the responses to asking that we work on changing it is plenty.
On a message board dedicated to fighting ignorance, I wish you(and others) would stick around and continue to fight it when it pops up.
Just my opinion.
To the best of my knowledge, lissener was never told he couldn’t post about Show**girls. As has been said, Reeder and Evil Captor were not prohibited from posting on certain subjects, only given limits. handy’s restriction was limited to a single forum.
It’s a sexist, misogynistic, racist world. I don’t like it, and the attitudes piss me off, but I’m not going to run from it. Where could I hide? Short of becoming a hermit or joining an all women’s and single race commune it’s going to come up. I’d rather face it well armed with a thick skin, education, well thought out counter arguments and wade in with my head held high and looking the assholes straight in the face.
Yes, I’m female. Yes, I’ve been subjected to the random groping and demeaning comments and attitudes. And no I’m not going to let it faze me - I know my own worth, and I know those morons are worthless.
I have as much right to petition the mods to adjust the boundaries of “don’t be a jerk” as anyone else, and I can vote with my feet depending on the results. I have already, and as Diosa is trying to tell you, a lot of others are too. I’m not claiming its my decision to make.
Lissener, Reeder, Handy, Evil Captor… all dealt with their specific prohibitions and continued posting here.
The problem isn’t whether or not the majority likes it. The problem is that it’s impossible to discuss race and intelligence here without it turning into a discussion of bogus genetic intelligence theories because the same posters show up and hijack the discussion. Permitting one aspect of the discussion is shutting out others. How is this an improvement in the free speech situation?
What’s obviously racist and uninformative is spending page after page banging heads with Brazil84 over his handwaving about how skin color obviously corresponds to something genetically identifiable for purposes of racial classification, when there’s actual geneticists exhaustively pointing out that there isn’t. That’s a situation where one of our esteemed racial IQ Crue should be warned off the digression.
Again, Lissener wasn’t allowed to discuss showgirls because the threads became a shitshow once he started. I don’t see how using that tactic elsewhere is a failure to have a thick enough skin.
The problem isn’t “my boobs look amazing” “cite?”, it’s “my boobs hurt before my period, any tips to help with that?” “Well maybe if I see a picture I can recommend something.” I’m pretty sure the mods are capable of judging the difference.
You conservatives are fond of pretending that rules can’t be enforced with judgement and discretion. Why don’t you try it for a while?
TubaDiva told me off-board that he was. I’ll take that as a given- but restrictions on individual posters are different from the more general complaints that most of the posters in this thread have made. And yes, there’s something to be said for fighting the good fight. For that matter there’s a lot to be said for bringing something to the attention of the mods promptly rather than waiting until you can’t take it anymore. In a Pit thread recently I learned about a poster who had propositioned a bunch of female posters. That was totally inappropriate, but none of the posters told us at the time- and for that matter I don’t think they felt comfortable getting specific even after the fact. It’s not that different from a lot of complaints about sexism or even abuse in society at large, actually. We want to know what’s going on while it’s going on.
Such comments reflect on the board, for good or ill, rather than on the individuals who are wondering if this is the right board for them.
The board hasn’t been the right board for me for a while, but it has been good enough. I don’t know if it will continue to be good enough, but if people want to drive me away, I’m sure they can.
My presence here has been a tacit acceptance of the board’s culture. I haven’t left, so I can’t say that it has been so bad that I couldn’t stay. That might be changing for me. It sounds like it might be changing for a few of us. And the contempt and derision I hear in some of these threads just makes that change a little farther, a little faster.
As soon as the board isn’t good enough for me any longer, I’ll leave. Like I said, I’m sure people can accelerate that if they want to. I’m not sure if anyone would want to, since I’m hardly a dynamic or memorable poster, but sure. I can be driven away. And if that happens I won’t owe anyone anything and won’t feel the slightest obligation to stick around to change it.
I don’t understand why you are asking. There have been plenty of examples. “Stop being hysterical” is sexist in context, so is “you women need to calm down”.
A definition of sexism might be: prejudice or discrimination based on sex, particularly against women.
handy and Reeder were eventually banned for violating those instructions and Evil Captor was not modded as described, so that’s not exactly true. It sounds like lissener did live with that type of restriction, at least at times.
This is the exact problem with these threads: you’re proposing we allow a very controversial area of discussion and then not allow one specific opinion. That’s pretty much the one thing we can’t do. We can’t allow threads asking ‘is there a link between race and intelligence’ and then bar people from saying ‘yes’ (even though they’re wrong). We could declare the whole thing off limits, but that poses other problems. We can and do moderate these people when they crap on other threads or when they’re abusive or hateful. And when they make their arguments, they lose over and over again. I admit I’ve argued both sides of this at times in mod discussions because it frustrates me as much as it frustrates a lot of other people, but banning their entire POV seems like the wrong response to ignorance around here.
Which makes me wish this issue had been raised sooner rather than when several posters felt they’d had enough (regardless of what the mods do about it).
You mean like all of the time I’ve brought up the racism on the board and nothing happened? Because that’s what happened. Nothing. A whole bunch of speeches about how we have to have all sorts of viewpoints and a whole lot of names to add to my ignore list and otherwise nothing.
There are a number of us who have been talking for a long time. It’s not our fault no one has been listening.
Show me the threads where posters have raised this misogyny issue before. I can’t think of a thing. The ‘scientific racism’ thing, distasteful as it is, is really not similar to making women uncomfortable with dumbass comments about breasts or dismissive comments in dating threads. So I’d rather not blur those issues too much.
Yes it IS. YES, it bloody well IS. It’s saying that on this board, denigrating, sneering, disgusting commentary is just par for the course. The story has been the same, “You’re playing the victim.” “You want to censor SOME speech.” “You don’t want the free exchange of ideas.”
Do not ask me to separate issues that are inexorably entwined. For some people, it’s more the sexism. For others, it’s more the racism. For me, it’s both.
“Distasteful” is a ghastly whitewash of racism. It’s not distasteful. It’s a fucking disgrace and an embarrassment. It’s disgusting.
They’re not related in context of this discussion, and this thread is about one of the two issues. If you want to talk about a bunch of other things at once, it’ll be that much harder to stay on topic and get to any kind of meaningful understanding.
Racism is disgusting. I was talking about a type of argument, and I’ll thank you to not accuse me of whitewashing anything.
