The hot ones. He’s talking about the hot ones.
Zoe, I loved your entire post, especially this
I’m a little skeptical of that trend, at least as it pertains to the SDMB, but I don’t disagree with what you’re saying about the staff discouraging this kind of thing.
Knowing that we have open this board to 13 year old boys and girls, I think it’s not unreasonable worry about that influence.
You haven’t asked about a specific comment, so speaking in general I will say that if I were a mod I would deal with each reported comment individually, taking into account tone, context, and poster history before deciding whether a post needed moderator action.
My leaning would probably be to give mod notes where blatantly sexist comments are reported outside of the pit. This would have the effect of highlighting posters who make those types of comment repeatedly, which would in turn influence any future moderator instructions. Sexist comments made in the Pit would be allowed.
Thankfully for me I am not a moderator, and my opinion matters not.
So it looks like Marley is taking the complaints seriously, despite some attempts to characterize people’s arguments as wanting a ban on teasing or a request to turn this into the Lilith Fair of message boards. We’d just like to be able to discuss lady stuff without the topic being hijacked by Reddit escapees with their “BOOBS PLZ!!!” silliness. I don’t know if this sort of threadshitting is going to be moderating from here on out, but I sure hope so. Marley seems to acknowledge the existence of this very annoying and very stupid phenomenon and is open to doing something about it, even if what to do exactly is still unclear. So thanks for that. My suggestion: No need to make 1,000 rules; just when someone starts that crap, tell them to knock it off.
First of all I would like to apologize for not participating in this thread until now. Unfortunately my life has been much busier than usual, and I have not had the time to both read the boards, try and keep up with threads in my areas, and participate here as well. But I do feel it is important that I offer my thoughts as an IMHO moderator.
I have been aware of this situation from the beginning, having read Mean Old Lady’s original thread from the beginning (about the insistent date). I also started reading this thread, but as I said, was not able to both read, digest and participate before other matters called me away.
First of all I would like to say that the fact this this discussion has been very, very beneficial to me as a moderator. I believe that I have made the mistake of overlooking sexist and misogynist comments on the board. The post that has been quoted here is a case in point. It is very clear to me that I should have told people to stop asking for pictures of boobs in the thread about the problem with enlarged breasts. I even made the mistake of adding to the problem by saying I was hoping for tips! I can’t change what I did back then, but I can offer an explanation and a plan for going forward.
The explanation is that when I became a moderator, it immediately became clear to me that I would have to put my personal feelings on some issues aside in order to enforce the rules. This may seem evident, but it is a bit of transition to make from poster to moderator. It is also a mistake people make when they report posts sometimes. They mistake a personally objectionable opinion for snark, insults or other rules violations. What actually is happening is that they are reacting according to their own beliefs, which is “I think X is wrong, so any post which espouses X is offensive to me and should be moderated.”
Personally, I had to learn this in the realm of religious discussion. I am aware there are a great many atheists on this board who very freely share their disdain for organized religion. I myself consider myself to be a fairly devout Catholic and try to live my life according to the precepts of the Church. Decrying the church for permitting the pedophilia scandal, for example, or expressing disdain for those who purportedly are religious yet do very harmful things are opinions people are allowed to have. I had to learn this and evaluate things on the basis of the comment, regardless of how I felt about what they were saying. Should be evident, I know many of you will think, but nevertheless it is a transition I had to make.
Now to the point (and I do have one) … by training myself to step back from my personal feelings on issues and attempting to evaluate things based on what exactly was being expressed I feel has led me to be a little more permissive than I should have been. Similar to how I might personally be hurt by anti-Catholic statements, I personally might recoil from a position someone takes that is anti-woman. Let me state here that I can indeed tell the difference between an opinion that “women are bad drivers and here is why I think so” and using comments that denigrate women to make unrelated points such as “people who won’t drive after dark are pussies” or to invoke the earlier example, “hey, if you are going to tell us your stained blouse makes your boobs look great, Ima gonna need pictures!!”
I am in agreement that off-topic, sexist jabs, taken as a whole, over time, do create an offensive atmosphere. But as a moderator sometimes it is difficult to see a little joke here, an off-color remark there just can seem too picayune to moderate. Too heavy-handed — something we get criticism for all the time. Believe it or not, we do agonize over whether or not an action by someone is a “clean shot” which we can clearly say is a rules violation worth banning over (for example).
So as Marley has been saying, this problem only can be clearly seen as a problem if people will clearly state that they think it IS a problem. And that’s what this thread is doing! Concern is being expressed. Even as a woman, and one who has always considered herself a feminist, I can say, “yes, I did not see this was a problem, though viewing such a preponderance of evidence as has been presented, I sort of feel foolish for not coming to that conclusion myself.”
To make a long post even longer, let me just say this to finish: I am human, all the moderators are human, and mistakes were probably made in the past. Jerkish comments should be moderated as jerkish, whether they are gender-neutral or overtly or subtly denigrating to women. There is a lot of male/female divisiveness in our society as a whole right now, and here at Straight Dope we’re just seeing more manifestation of it. Rape is being discussed worldwide, and here too. I know we all like to think we’re smart, but I don’t think we’ve been any smarter than the rest of humanity on this issue. The best we can do is pledge to evolve, try harder to understand others’ points of view, and remember that sometimes being kind is better than scoring points in a debate.
I’ll try to keep up better and respond to any questions anyone might have of me specifically.
That’s all we’d do; there’s nothing about this that requires a new rule. And by the same token I’d have modded some of the more obnoxious comments in this thread if I’d been reading it earlier, but lately I haven’t been able to post as much on evenings and weekends.
Slow clap for Ellen Cherry’s speech!
Shouldn’t you be in class?
Thanks Ellen Cherry, I really appreciate the entirety of your post. I am glad this discussion has been illuminating for you and I hope for other moderators as well.
I have this whole week off. And I can post from my phone you know, during break times.
nm–thread’s moved on and we’re way past what I was commenting on.
That’s pretty rude. And also inane.
Did you think that was funny? It’s not.
If you have disagreement with what Ellen said, please make it in the form of a coherent statement.
One problem is that even if everyone here, now, agreed to never say anything even remotely sexist there will always be new posters from elsewhere. Like our dear friend here:
Granted he didn’t say anything sexist but the stupids are out there and will find this place now and again.
And when the stupid finds its way here, it’ll be moderated in accordance with the rules. Is this seriously an issue?
Sorry, I did not mean it sarcastically. I was serious and was applauding her on it. I am sorry though if you think it was rude.
ETA: wait, I can see how that may have came off as rude. Sorry about that. I should have been more genial in praising her post.
Often a “slow clap” is a sign of respect- the slow clap when someone does something unexpected and amazing and everyone around breaks into the slow, rhythmic clap.
Unless I’m way off base- I took it as a compliment.
ETA: Anonymous User, it seemed nice to me!
Like Ellen, I’m now seeing this is a far bigger issue than I had known.
I will make an effort to take action on comments and jokes of that nature in the future.
Okay, so often I see that used in the sardonic/sarcastic/deeply ironical sense, I didn’t see it as any sort of sincere positive comment at all.
But since you have clarified, okay.