MLB fans-Who will break your heart if they are in the Mitchell report?

[What_Exit]

@Least Original User Name Ever

I don’t think that it’d diminish the product. I’d like to see more smallball and hit-and-runs and emphasis put back on the steal (although I doubt the last one will happen).

Although, if MLB ends up “clean” and the power numbers don’t go down, can we safely say that steroids have no impact on the game of baseball itself?

Well, until they can test for HgH, can we really believe the game is cleaner?

I think players are just going to get a lot smarter about not using checks and getting the HgH on their own when they are out of the country.

Jim

[Least_Original_User_Name_Ever]

@What Exit?

Well, until they can test for HgH, can we really believe the game is cleaner?

I think players are just going to get a lot smarter about not using checks and getting the HgH on their own when they are out of the country.

Jim

Certainly. That’s why I put “clean” in quotation marks.

We’ve also got to set a definition for that word as well. Does it mean no steroids? No human growth hormone? No supplements? Where does the line get drawn and who gets to set that line? Politics, science, or actual effects on baseball players?

[RickJay]

@Least Original User Name Ever

I don’t think that it’d diminish the product. I’d like to see more smallball and hit-and-runs and emphasis put back on the steal (although I doubt the last one will happen).

Although, if MLB ends up “clean” and the power numbers don’t go down, can we safely say that steroids have no impact on the game of baseball itself?

No, because you can’t know what would have happened if the game hadn’t been cleaned up. Statistical standards shift up and down for a variety of reasons, and will continue to do so. It’ll be very difficult to ascertain just what the steroid effect was, or is. (I am unconvinced MLB will do anything meaningful about this.)

For instance, it’s your assumption that fewer homers will result in more steals, more hit and runs and the like, but history suggests that there’s not really a clear connection between the two. Today’s steal totals actually are not that low. In 2007 the average team stole about 96 bases, which is average by historical standards. It’s a bit lower than it was in, say, 1983 (about 125 steals per team) but much higher than it was in 1952, when teams averaged fewer than 50 steals. But home run totals in 1952 and 1983 were roughly the same, so why were steals way up? Why have steals remained relatively gigh today, much higher than at any point in the 1930s, 1940s or 1950s, when home runs have ballooned? There’s a huge number of reasons, but the basestealing we were treated to in the 1970s and 1980s was very unusual.

[VarlosZ]

@RickJay

For instance, it’s your assumption that fewer homers will result in more steals, more hit and runs and the like, but history suggests that there’s not really a clear connection between the two.

It looks like there’s a correlation to me. For what it’s worth, Rob Neyer seems to agree.

Of course the correlation is somewhat muted, I imagine due to the fact that baseball managers are notorious for avoiding optimal strategies.

[EllisDee]

@RickJay

Would fewer home runs really reduce the quality of the product? I doubt the number of home runs would even really drop all that much; there have been a lot of things driving up home run totals, not just steroids. There’d be no perceptible difference in the quality of play.

More to the point, if pitchers’ recovery time was the biggest impact of steroids, then the game will indeed suffer regardless of home run totals due to the decline in pitching.

[Yookeroo]

@EJsGirl

Bingo. Steroids aren’t just about power or size- they are also about coming back more quickly from an injury. That’s why pitchers use them.

It’s a long season with a lot of games in a row and few days off, and there are always young guys itching to take your spot. The pressure on players is enormous, and it is only natural that they will actively seek any edge they can get.

I am not saddened or surprised by any of this- nor should any true baseball fan. You all knew it, just like you know about the greenies…

I’m not saying it’s good for the game, but it is part of the game.

I agree. There’s a long history of players using performance enhancing substances. This has been blown way out of proportion. I’m not much bothered by anyone who turned up.

And is it so wrong for players to use them to come back from injury? Is that any more “performance enhancing” than using antibiotics to fight off infection?

[Least_Original_User_Name_Ever]

@VarlosZ

It looks like there’s a correlation to me. For what it’s worth, Rob Neyer seems to agree.

Of course the correlation is somewhat muted, I imagine due to the fact that baseball managers are notorious for avoiding optimal strategies.

Well, some managers don’t like risking an out for a potential run or a RISP. Then again, some managers overmanage so damned much (yes, you, Tony LaRussa).

Another point to consider is that players might be better conditioned and, as a whole, faster than baserunners of previous generations because of that. Again, I ask where the line is drawn at “performance enhancing drugs” and who draws that line?

[Kyla]

@Least Original User Name Ever

Also, besides skin color, what’s the difference between Clemens and Bonds?

One’s a pitcher and the other’s an outfielder. DUH.

Glad I could clear that up for you.

I’m going now.

[Least_Original_User_Name_Ever]

I’m honestly surprised that it took that long for someone to say that.

[drm]

@Yookeroo

I agree. There’s a long history of players using performance enhancing substances. This has been blown way out of proportion. I’m not much bothered by anyone who turned up.

And is it so wrong for players to use them to come back from injury? Is that any more “performance enhancing” than using antibiotics to fight off infection?

I’m not an expert when it comes to steroids but HGH is really the substance used when recovering from injuries. Also, someone can feel free to correct me if I’m wrong but I’m under the impression that HGH doesn’t really have a lot of performance enhancing qualities by itself. It’s used in conjunction with anabolic steroids and insulin. I’m also under the impression that HGH doesn’t have nearly the side effects Anabolic Steroids do.

So if all that information is correct, I’m inclined to let HGH go, it’s all that other crap I have a problem with.

[Moirai]

Pettitte has already come out and said that while he never took steroids, he used HGH twice while rehabbing his arm.

[Marley23]

There’s no particular reason to disbelieve Pettitte, based on the Mitchell report, but his statement annoyed me. He came close to apologizing for what he did, but refused to do it for whatever reason. “IF what I did was an error in judgment?” That sounds a lot like ‘I’m not sorry I did it, I’m sorry I got caught.’ His comments about how he took the stuff only to get healthy and get back to the team also reeked of rationalizations.

[What_Exit]

@Marley23

There’s no particular reason to disbelieve Pettitte, based on the Mitchell report, but his statement annoyed me. He came close to apologizing for what he did, but refused to do it for whatever reason. “IF what I did was an error in judgment?” That sounds a lot like ‘I’m not sorry I did it, I’m sorry I got caught.’ His comments about how he took the stuff only to get healthy and get back to the team also reeked of rationalizations.

I am glad he at least acknowledged he did it, but Mister holier than thou freaking committed an illegal act and is trying to rationalize it.

Dr. Gary Wadler, a steroids expert and a World Anti-Doping Agency adviser, said Pettitte’s explanation doesn’t pass muster. Human growth hormone is approved by the FDA for limited uses such as growth or pituitary deficiences or AIDS wasting syndrome.

“HGH should only be prescribed by a doctor; it is a highly controlled drug and one of the few that can’t be prescribed for off-label uses,” Wadler said. “It’s very clear. It has very limited legit uses. An elbow injury would not be a government-approved use of human growth hormone.”

It is unclear if two days’ use would help. “And if this was prescribed by a doctor or trainer, that person could be charged,” Wadler said. “If self-prescribed, Pettitte could be charged.”

Sorry, Andy, while I still hope you win 20 in 2008, your false apology lost this fan. You now belong in the hall of shame with Jason. This is of course a better place than the raw hatred I hold for Bonds, Clemens and Big Mac at this point.

Jim

ETA: More proof that he is a blatant liar and BS artist:

A little over a year ago, it was reported in the Los Angeles Times that a former Yankee pitcher named Jason Grimsley had accused some major-league players of using performance-enhancing drugs in a federal agent’s affidavit. One of the players named in the Times story was Andy Pettitte, who was about to finish his last season with the Houston Astros.

When asked about the story at the time, here is what Andy Pettitte, who now says he has worked hard his entire life to do things the right way, said: “I’ve never used any drugs to enhance my performance in baseball. I don’t know what to say except that it’s embarrassing that my name would be out there.”

[VarlosZ]

I must say, from an ethical standpoint, I couldn’t care less that HGH is illegal in Pettite’s case and others like it. It’s not like the stuff is tough to get and therefore only available to a select few ballplayers. Hell, a minute ago all four Google adds on the bottom of this page were for online pharmacies that are selling HGH effectively over the counter.

Also, it bears repeating that there’s very little (if any) evidence to suggest that HGH improves a player’s performance in the same way that certain kinds of steroids can.

@Andy Pettite

“I’ve never used any drugs to enhance my performance in baseball.”

Maybe a bit of semantics, but I think that’s technically accurate. If his description of his HGH usage is truthful, then he used it to recover from an injury, not enhance his performance. YMMV, but I think that’s very diferent from a guy who takes something illicit on a regular basis so he can hit more home runs or add a few MPH to his fastball.

[DudleyGarrett]

Where is the line drawn? Why is HGH bad but Cortisone OK? Why not ban aspirin?

“If you are injured, you must not take medications that will aid in healing, for any reason.”

I think aside from illegal drugs (anabolic steroids), baseball shouldn’t care what player takes what to recover from injuries.

[gonzomax]

Baseball will become as clean as European Cycling and the Olympics. We will char broil a few unimportant players every now and then to create the impression something is being done. It will be a contest between chemists and labs. It is a waste. It is none of our business what they want to do to their bodies to compete. Lets quit regulating . Makes it better to watch anyway.