Tomorrow is the announcement for this years Hall of Fame voting. I know people get pretty passionate about this, so I figured GD would be better than IMHO. Anyway, if I had a vote, here is who I would vote for. Dave Winfield - A top level player for 20 years. Kirby Pucket - led the Twins to 2 world championships and was constantly one of the AL’s best players. Jim Rice - awesome hitter, just because he is not a favorite of the press hes not in yet. Bruce Sutter/Goose Gossage - redifined the role of the closer. Their stats need to be measured up to their era, not todays when any old joker can get 35 saves. Now who doesn’t make my list? Don Mattingly - He was my hero growing up, but his stats just miss out. He dominated while on top, but did little damage once he got hurt. Dale Murphy - the best player of the early 80’s, but thats it. He faded pretty quick, and stayed playing well past his prime. Thurmun Munson - Unfortunatly, he just didn’t stay alive long enough to get the numbers needed. Gary Carter - he was the toughest choice for me. But I figured I had voted 5 in, so that was enough. Wow, I guess I should turn in my Yankee gear after not voting for Munson and Mattingly, but voting for Jim Rice.
Pete-the-hell-Rose. I don’t care what the guy did off the field; he was among the greats and deserves just recognition.
Dave Winfield, Bert Blyleven, Gary Carter, and Goose Gossage are the no-brainers, in my opinion. They’re the only players I’d vote for (given that people like Bill Mazeroski are off the ballot).
Sofa - Pete Rose isn’t eligible, so I can’t vote for him. Bert Blyleven probably deserves to go. He starred for a lot of crappy teams, so his numbers don’t look to good.
Winfield, Carter, Gossage.
Pete Rose did his betting from the dugout, so it did happen on the field.
Betting on baseball. No big deal.
Q. What if every baseball player placed bets?
A. The game would cease to exsist.
When is Paul Mollitor going to be eligible. If he already is, then I vote for him.
Aside: When Dave Winfield doubled to drive home the winning run for the Blue Jays in the 92 World Series (in the eleventh inning no less!), he drove himself into the Hall.
Gossage(if he’s not in, then closers or relievers don’t belong)
Sutter(same as Gossage)
Carter(every bit as good as Fisk)
Morris(I’m from Detroit, cut me some slack)
I don’t think Puckett played long enough. I’m sorry to say that because he was such a joy but to be fair to other players whose careers were cut short, you have to consider that. Yes it was tragic, but no more tragic than Tommy John or Bret Saberhagen or Jose Canseco, who would have had HOF careers if not for injuries. Injuries happen and you have to consider that. Puckett was 90% there.
Don’t get me wrong, I won’t care if he gets in. That’s just how I would vote.
Winfield. Blyleven. G. Garter. Gossage. Sutter.
Now, since someone brought up Pete Rose, what about Joe Jackson?
Rose and Jackson cannot even be considered since they are inelligible. That could be a debate in itself.
I like the way you think. I would comment further, but I promised I wouldn’t on another board. 'Nuff said.
Here’s my ballot:
I couldn’t leave Kirby off it, simply because he was so fun to watch, and he came up clutch when it mattered most.
As for Goose and Bert, like oblong said, they are among the best releivers ever, so if releivers belong, Gossage and Blyleven do.
I give the vote to Deshaies beacaues he just doesn’t want to be shut out. In fact there is a whole campaign to keep him from being shut out. Check out The Jim Deshaies Hall of Fame Campaign Headquarters Plus Deshaies set the record for pickoff attmepts to first base in a season and for most at-bats without an extra base hit (both of which he thinks are still standing).
The player notable by his absence from my ballot, Dave Winfield, will never appear on a ballot filled out my me. He personally was a dick head to me once, and for that reason I’ll do what I can to keep him out of the Hall. (Yes, his numbers are good enough for him to be in there.)
Good call Blunt. I was waiting to see if anyone else heard of his campaign.
398 homers and 1266 RBIs–which averages to 30 homers and 94 RBIs per every 162 games he played, which is the equivalent of a full 13+ seasons (this is what’s key for me).
Also: 2 MVP awards, career .469 slugging percentage. And, since “character” has so often been cited by past voters as as reason not to vote for someone, Dale Murphy may have been the nicest, most honorable and charitable man ever to play MLB.
blur, I think your assessment was harsh. Murphy may still not get your vote, but he can’t be so easily dismissed. He was an outstanding player, even if he falls an inch or two short of the HOF finish line (he’d get my vote, as if you couldn’t tell).
Sorry, I didn’t mean to be harsh to Dale. I just figured I was getting a little longwinded. I can’t argue the logic of voting him in, just not with my vote.
After Tommy John had the famous surgery that now bears his name, he pitched another 14 years or so! In total, the man pitched 26 years and had his most productive seasons after going under the knife. Because of this, I really don’t think the injury affected his career nearly as much as it might have for other players, such as Saberhagen. Canseco, on the other hand, will almost certainly make it anyway, injuries or not. (He is, after all, very close to 500 home runs.)
And by the way, while Puckett didn’t play particularly long (12 years), not all Hall of Famers did, either. While longevity should, in my opinion, be a criterion for election, it should not be the only criterion. Sandy Koufax had his career cut short by injury too, and he was justifiably elected.
I also feel that a player should be judged mostly on athletic merit, ignoring such characteristics as personality (to some degree, anyway). That’s why I feel Winfield, who was a burr in the saddle for some, especially early in his career, should make it. He’s got his 3,000 hits. He’s been a dominating presence on the field. A bona fide slugger, etc. He and Puckett get my votes!
I think the unofficial standard of 3000 hits and 500 home runs will start to fade away in the next 10 years or so. Even if Jose gets 500, I don’t think he will get in. Same with Harold Baines and 3000 hits.
Good analogy with Puckett/Koufax. I can’t really argue against it other than to say that Koufax was more dominating as a pitcher than Puckett was as an outfielder. To me, the threshold of outfielders is much higher than a catcher or middle infielder.
If someone wishes to start a Pete Rose thread, I’m all for it.
I think 500 HR will, but 3000 hits might take a little longer. To me, the big sluggers’ boon came after the last strike in 1994-95. (There was one in 1987 as well.) Players who began their careers around that time are slugging 40-50 a year now with regularity; Canseco has been doing it since 1986. Which is not to say he’ll be a shoo-in when he’s eligible - Dave Kingman hit over 400 HR and didn’t make it because we was so one-dimensional. But Jose isn’t a bad player. He’s a slugger who has been fleet-footed in the past (remember his 40-40 season?). I think he’ll make it in, but players who started after he did will find it tougher, because there are so many 40-HR men out there now.
Anyway, he still has a few years left - let’s see how high up the ladder he can climb. If he hits over 550, for example, he’ll be in there.
Oh, and you’re right about Koufax being more dominant of a pitcher than Puckett was of an outfielder. Apples and oranges, to some extent. After all, you don’t see Tony Conigliaro in the Hall, do you?
On the official ballot a person can vote for up to 10, so my votes go to:
Puckett, Winfield, Gary Carter, Sutter, Gossage, Jim Kaat, Tommy John, Jim Rice, Luis Tiant, & Dave Concepcion.
I’d vote for
The notable absence is Sutter. I don’t think he compares to Gossage; Sutter is basically equivalent to Tom Henke. I might vote for them next year.
Going on my preferred criteria of
(1) being recognized as easily one of the best at his position for an extended period, including not being one-dimensional (leaves out career DH’s or good field, no hit guys, sorry)
(2) rising to the occasion at the few defining moments that any kid daydreams about, when they happened (being stuck on bad teams shouldn’t hurt, but choking in postseason should)
(3) not being a total jerk,
(4) not getting extra credit for playing in New York or LA,
my choices are:
Kirby Puckett - yes, getting a team to the Series primarily by oneself is enough.
Goose Gossage - defined his position, no reliever more feared for a long period, should ignore his sticking around too long. Sutter just wasn’t on the same level, sorry.
Gary Carter - as good defensively as Bench, similar hitting results, shouldn’t be penalized for being stuck in Montreal,
Jack Morris - dominated when he had a decent team behind him; 10-inning shutout in 1987 Game 7 meets Criterion 2. Check his numbers with bad teams, anyway.
Dale Murphy is marginal; I wouldn’t object.
Jim Rice - overrated; no bigger numbers could have meant less to his team. Killed too many rallies with GIDP’s - by the end, the chant was “Hey Rice, just strike out and keep the inning alive!” Basically a jerk, too.
Luis Tiant - not dominating enough for long enough; sorry.
Munson and Mattingly - good players, never HOF-style dominant, support based on being Yankees.
Bert Blyleven - what did he ever do but specialize in staring over his shoulder at all the homers he gave up?