I think one of the important takeaways from these punishments that I haven’t read is that it doesn’t punish the players. That’s important because it allows them to remain the whistleblowers without fear of being alienated by other players.
I doubt very much any other teams are going to get penalized for sign-stealing. I think the league has decided to make an example of the Astros and now they have. I am very sad. The amount of hatred and vindictiveness directed at the Astros is surprising but I guess I should not be surprised to find it here too. I am so sorry but the joy has gone out of this sport for me.
On further cogitation, I am in favor of, in addition to the punishments above:
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Making the trophy read “No Winner” for 2017 and 2018.
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Deny the Astros and the Red Sox any and all draft picks and/or international signings for a number of years
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Alex Cora gets Pete Rosed.
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Both the Astros and the Red Sox have to open ALL their luxury boxes/special seating to appropriate youth organizations for 5 years. For free. With catering. Corporate can still buy their boxes, but the team owner’s box, etc. are to be used for Boys/Girls Club outings.
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All players involved must undertake a pilgrimage to Lourdes/ the Hajj.
The signal stealing stories really hurt. Gawd, I love baseball! But these stories are painful.
The sport has always been sacred to me. It has all changed. It would have been better if it didn’t happen. Or, I didn’t know about it.
Sorry, it just pops my balloon.
The league says it’s ok to steal signs using your eyes but not ok using a video monitor. And the Astros apparently used banging on a trash can with a stick to transmit their information to the hitter. Which category does that fall into?
Is this an attempt to defend what they did? I just want to be sure.
I don’t think much of that.
Baseball has an image problem. This sort of cheating has had half a blind eye turned to it over the past…oh 100 years or so, which is why the players felt free to engage in it, and the managers and GMs felt like they didn’t have to crack down on it.
If baseball wants to turn around and claim they don’t have a culture problem and they’re taking it seriously, then this BS culture of player silence has to be part of it.
Yes, it is. I think it is curious that stealing signs with electronics is vile cheating but picking off the signs with your eyes is allowed.
Also, you say “defend what they did”; who do you mean by “they”? Because if you think only the Astros did it, you are wrong. Sorry but I just can’t get my head around stealing signs as cheating. **Antibob ** said half a blind eye was turned to it for 100 years; the fact is both eyes were blind to it, because it was basically considered fair game.
OK I’ll go now.
I honestly don’t know what’s curious about that. It seems perfectly logical to me.
Nine points. You didn’t sort the list by batting average.
Guess who led the majors in batting by the same nine points in 2018?
That’d be Boston, the other team seriously implicated in sign stealing. Hmm.
It will be interesting to see what kind of penalties the Red Sox receive once that investigation is over. I think Manfred would have preferred to say that the scandal ONLY involved the Astros, but recent events have made that difficult to say the least. It’s hard to see how you get away with a significantly lesser penalty for the Red Sox, especially given the Alex Cora connection. Indeed, if the reports are right, Cora comes across as much more culpable than Hinch. Guess we’ll see…
The trash can was next to a monitor, which the can banger was watching. So… it’s video monitor category.
You understand that they were watching real time catchers signals with high powered cameras and video technology, then using the can to let the batter know what pitch was coming.
As I understand it, the Sox were simply ‘studying the tape’ to understand what signs they used, in the hopes they could apply that knowledge when a runner was on 2nd base, and could see the signs directly.
The Astros were relaying the catcher’s sign to the batter live, while none of their players were in a position to see the signs from the field.
What exactly are the chances that Crane didn’t know about the sign stealing?
Pete Rose. SMDH every time I think about it. I still want him to be in the HOF because he belongs there based on his play but so disappointing. I’m convinced it’s a disease for him.
I’m hopeful that a rules change on gambling in the MLB will lead to a pardon for Pete Rose.
I think at this point it’s clear Rose has a serious gambling addiction he’s never gotten help for. He is a sensationally dishonest man, but I agree it’s a disease. He should have gotten help a long, long time ago, but is likely too proud and self-deluded to do so. Manfred refused his application for reinstatement in large part because, according to Manfred, Rose hadn’t changed his lifestyle - to use MLB’s wording, he had not “reconfigured his life,” and apparently he just flat out lied in his meeting with Manfred. Indeed, apparently at the time Rose asked to be reinstated, he was in debt to Vegas casinos for huge markers and wasn’t paying other debts.
Gambling addiction is a disease and a hard one to shake. It destroys people. I am genuinely sad for Pete Rose, but it makes him a huge threat to MLB as long as his disease is untreated. They just can’t have him.
Had Rose accepted in 1989 what he had done, and gotten help, and been honest about his problems, he would be in the Hall of Fame today. More importantly, he’d be a happier and healthier person.
I hadn’t thought of that. It’s a good point.
After posting that I found Manfred’s statement on the Rose reinstatement application. It is comprehensive and, in my opinion, extremely well written, thoughtful, and logical.
Most people say Rose does not get in the HOF until he dies and even then he probably won’t get in.
They could offer teams a sort of plea deal where they get less punishment if they admit cheating. I don’t think that is likely though.
In NASCAR they say if you are not cheating you are not winning. Sometimes the NASCAR cheaters get caught but not always. Even when they are caught the penalties are not that stiff.
This is the simple truth, how people can still complain he should be in, makes me scratch my head. However, once he passes away, I would put Rose in.
I suppose one difference is that cameras bring the ability of someone other than the players on the field into play. There is now a guy in the back deciphering a video feed of the catcher’s signals. That guy in the back doesn’t have to worry about focusing on the game.
Another difference is that you don’t have to get a guy on 2nd to start stealing signs, your lead off batter gets the benefit of stolen signs.
If every batter knew what pitch was going to be thrown, we would start seeing batting averages in the 400s. If you have a runner on 2nd, you may be more careful about disguising your signs.
The balance between batter and pitcher in baseball is a pretty delicate thing and a lot of that balance is the rock paper scissor element of pitching.