MMPRPGs and teaming

[Jolly_Roger]

MMORPGs are designed for teaming, which is great. You can actually play a game with multiple people that are hundreds, maybe thousands of miles away from you in real time. (ain’t that incredible…when I was in college VCRs were the new thing, you wanted to play a fantasy game with others you’d better be into DnD or cyberpunk) I just don’t team that much. My first level 50 character in City of Heroes I almost exclusively soloed to the final level. Its not because I don’t like playing with other people it is because sometimes its such a headache.

I have not played every MMO out there, but I play **City of Heroes/Villains **and World of Warcraft. In CoX is a little easier for teaming at least to me. I just hate it when I join a team and find out that the team leader is 10 levels lower than I am, or they want my high level character to “bridge” or Power level them. Of course theres the times when the team leader is a complete boob that has the mission level set so high we can’t possibly win (itz mad XP!) or simply aggros everything in the mission.

WoW teaming, though…this happened this morning and it seems to happen to me a lot. I needed to get some gold for a mount for a character, and the easiest way was for me to use my level 64 Warlock to do a few missions and mail the money to the character. I was about to leave Stormwind when a level 35 character asked me to help them the Scarlet Monastery quest. Well, I agreed figuring maybe I could get a few things worth selling or auctioning. (my warlock had the gold to send to the other character, I just wanted to earn more to keep his wallet at the level it was at) I didn’t mind helping this guy and his friend out but I told them I haven’t played for awhile and I had about 90 minutes before I had to log for awhile. So I went to Southshore and rode to the monastery following a level 40 paladin that was the other member of our 3 man team. The team leader though…he must have been disconnected for awhile, but we figured he’d be back soon. We get to the monastery and he’s back on line. we can’t summon him *(I know I couldn’t…a warlock needs 2 additional characters to do so and it was just the paladin and I). *So we wait…and wait…this guy isn’t answering us other than to say "on my way". After about 30 minutes I look at the map…he’s on the freaking Deeprun Tram…which IIRC and it hasn’t been changed will take him to Ironforge in the opposite direction. Now, he was IN Southshore so he must have hearthstoned back to Stormwind or flew on a griffon, but either way this guy was close but chose to go do whatever else while we’re waiting. The paladin got tired of waiting and logged out. I had about 30 minutes or so until I had to go so I logged too. I wasn’t going to get to my own quest in time to do it, and this numbnuts was screwing around as if it was our duty to wait for him. Keep in mind I did not ask him to pay me for helping him with a higher level character. I was just trying to be friendly. But he wasted my time, so I was a bit pissed off.

That happens to me a lot when I team up with people I don’t know in WoW. Maybe its me, but its annoying. My former guild no longer exists really, so until I find another teaming is gonna be hard for me. I just hate having my time wasted. I know that it takes some time to travel in WoW, but this guy went out of his way to make us wait and it was his friggin’ team and his quest. You’d think he’d try to y’know, not make the other people on the team wait for 30 freaking minutes while he goes off to Iron Forge to do whatever.

If any dopers here know of a guild with adults on Stormrage let me know. Or suggest the best ways to make some gold for a mount. I have a level 24 rogue that will need one soon.

[Palooka]

If you want to play with better people, you need to switch to a server with better people on it. If you’re happy with your ping to Stormrage, then stick with the Ruin battlegroup and move to a PvP server. The PvP servers have way more people who’re serious about the game, so you’ll be more likely to group with them. If you’re West coast, Blackrock or Tich. East coast is iffier.

[Kobal2]

I’m in the same boat - I like Muhmorpuggers, but the omnipresent asshattery often grates me, and I end up playing by my lonesome. My last experience was trying out Warhammer Online with my old guild and loving it, to have them go back to WoW after a mere month… I’m not bitter :).

I find that RP servers alleviate the problem somewhat. Generally speaking, people who choose to play on those kinds of servers tend to be more mature and considerate of others. Whether they know how to play their friggin’ classes is another matter :).

But in the end, no matter the server, if you find yourself alone, the best solution is to play random pick-up groups for a while, jot down or friend list the people who do know how to play well, aren’t jerks and know how to bloody spell, and try to join their guilds.
You may have to guild hop a bit before you hit paydirt (just because one or two of them are good guys, doesn’t mean the whole guild is, or guarantee the guild leader isn’t a raving megalomaniacal drama queen :rolleyes:) but once you’ve found a safe haven from the Demons of Stupidity, it’s all gravy.

[Max_the_Immortal]

The great thing about my guild is that it’s mostly idiot-free. It protects me from the crapshoot that is the pickup group.

What were you doing in that group in the first place? Just because some random asks for a run does not mean that you have to give it to them. Unless it’s a friend or guildy, either decline to help them or charge them gold (you may have been able to finance your rogue’s mount). It would have been bad enough to waste your time if you were pugging something in Auchindoun or Coilfang, but the guy kept you waiting when you were doing them a favor? That’s just blatantly wasting your time. Remember that you’re playing this game for you, not for them.

[Jolly_Roger]

@Max_the_Immortal

The great thing about my guild is that it’s mostly idiot-free. It protects me from the crapshoot that is the pickup group.

What were you doing in that group in the first place? Just because some random asks for a run does not mean that you have to give it to them. Unless it’s a friend or guildy, either decline to help them or charge them gold (you may have been able to finance your rogue’s mount). It would have been bad enough to waste your time if you were pugging something in Auchindoun or Coilfang, but the guy kept you waiting when you were doing them a favor? That’s just blatantly wasting your time. Remember that you’re playing this game for you, not for them.

I normally don’t just up and join a group or guild by being asked once by a person I don’t know. I just felt like maybe I could try and be friendly for once. Your final line is what I used to tell people in the OcX forums in arguments over jackasses teaming.* “I’m not responsible for your enjoyment. Pay my subscription fees and then maybe I’ll be at your beck and call, but until then, its not only no but hell no.”*

[Rigamarole]

I once had a very elucidating moment in regards to WoW and the player base.

I was being interviewed by a pscyhologist as part of a research study screening, and one of the questions she asked me was regarding my hobbies. I mentioned I liked computer games, and she asked which ones in particular, and I mentioned WoW. But I added that I recently stopped playing it, and she asked why.

I told her it was because I tend to get very addicted and sucked into such games and it was taking too much of my time, to which she responded: “Ah, most of my patients are autistic and they all get really into that game. Good that you can recognize that.”

Suddenly it all made sense.

[Robin_Goodfellow]

@Rigamarole

I once had a very elucidating moment in regards to WoW and the player base.

I was being interviewed by a pscyhologist as part of a research study screening, and one of the questions she asked me was regarding my hobbies. I mentioned I liked computer games, and she asked which ones in particular, and I mentioned WoW. But I added that I recently stopped playing it, and she asked why.

I told her it was because I tend to get very addicted and sucked into such games and it was taking too much of my time, to which she responded: “Ah, most of my patients are autistic and they all get really into that game. Good that you can recognize that.”

Suddenly it all made sense.

Hmmm…

@http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html

U.S. population 305,889,800

divided by…

@http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17047721/

ATLANTA - The largest U.S. study of childhood autism to date has found that about 1 in 150 have the disorder …

(approximately) equals…

@http://www.blizzard.com/us/press/080122.html

Subscriber base for Blizzard Entertainment®’s massively multiplayer online role-playing game now exceeds 2.5 million in North America …

305,889,800 / 150 = 2,039,265

People… we have found the enabler.

:rolleyes:

[Oakminster]

In cse you missed it in your other WoW thread, here’s some comments on money making from me and Bosstone:

@Oakminster

The way to make money is to have at least one gathering profession…mining, herbalism, or skinning. You sell the raw materials on the auction house…whether ore, herbs, or skins. Some people take two of those three, and do not take one of the crating skills, to maximize income. Later, at high level, it is easier to drop a gathering proffession for a crafting one…and level it up quickly.

You can also make decent coin selling cloth drops at auction. Search to see how much the going rate is, undercut it so your stuff will be first on the list and sure to sell.

@Bosstone

It took me a bit before I learned this. Crafting does not earn you income at the low levels. There are a few recipes that may be profitable, but on the whole it is vastly better to gather and sell than to craft when you’re going up through the levels. I was killing myself mining and blacksmithing, turning out complete junk. Finally I gave up and started selling the ore straight, and suddenly I’m swimming in gold. I still work Mining up, and when I’m up a few more levels it won’t be much work to boost Blacksmithing up to where it actually produces worthwhile stuff.

I find Jewelcrafting to be fairly profitable, but again you’re usually better off selling the ore instead of the jewelry.

Two gathering professions (usually Skinning plus Herbalism or Mining) will net you solid income, and you should have 40 gold well before level 30.

[smiling_bandit]

@Oakminster

In cse you missed it in your other WoW thread, here’s some comments on money making from me and Bosstone:

Seconded. Well, thirded. The only reason you may want a crafting skill is so that you canb make some of your own gear early on. This is mostly for mages, clerics, and warlocks who wear cloth, because you can’t do leather or chain as good as you can easily buy early on. Cloth-crafters can also make bags, which sell well enough to make if you like.

[Jragon]

Group, not team (in WoW).
Quest, not mission (in WoW).

Now how’s THAT for good ol’ SDMB pedantry?
Anyway, I’ve been extremely fortunate in the asshat arena for PUGs, it’s mostly because I have a zero tolerance policy for idiocy, if you screw up and roll need on a blue, fine, it happens, you can stay if you seem sincere in your apology. If you keep the group waiting for no good reason and get all defensive when we ask what you were doing, buh-bye.

Here’s a good ground rule: If someone asks you to run an instance much lower than your level with them, and they’re not in your guild (or you don’t know them otherwise in-game), they’re fishing and expecting a free trip and you can expect the worst. The ONLY time I’d do it is if I got dibs on 60% or more of all items they can’t use.

@Kobal2

But in the end, no matter the server, if you find yourself alone, the best solution is to play random pick-up groups for a while, jot down or friend list the people who do know how to play well, aren’t jerks and know how to bloody spell, and try to join their guilds.

I wouldn’t say know how to play well, but potential is key. I’ve known some crappy, crappy players that were open to suggestion. I’m a really good metagamer (meaning: even if I haven’t hit max level I still, for some reason, know how to play your class better than you), at least when compared to newbs. All it takes is a suggestion here or there and you can get them running (just don’t push it).

You may have to guild hop a bit before you hit paydirt (just because one or two of them are good guys, doesn’t mean the whole guild is, or guarantee the guild leader isn’t a raving megalomaniacal drama queen :rolleyes:) but once you’ve found a safe haven from the Demons of Stupidity, it’s all gravy.

Heh, on Laughing Skull I had this guild, The Tormented. One night I was just looking at my chat box and it gets flooded with yellow “<Name> has left the guild.” And I mean flooded. So my RL friend whispers me “Leave, Jragon [well, my real name].”

Me: “Why?”

Him: “Just leave, I’m not explaining.”

Apparently there was some heavy, heavy officer corruption and in loot distribution and DKP management and stuff, also the Guild Leader is the maddest drama queen you’ve ever seen. He’s usually nice but if you barely offend him he can become worse than the Ony Wipe guy (minus the accent). That day the ENTIRE GUILD went from two-hundred-sixty-something to sixteen and almost the entire command structure was blacklisted. 90% of the old members formed a guild the same night called “Sanguine Legion” (Or something like that, I forgot, been a long time ago since I was in it).

It had to be the biggest guild schism I’ve ever seen. Yeah, you may need to fish around a bit before finding a good one, even if EVERYONE seems good and nice.

[Critical1]

Rl friends are teh win.

when I was playing I formed a guild that consisted of about 8 people who all knew each other in the real world. we rarely ever even considered inviting people from the game (a few but only after extensive playing with them and they usually hung with us for a while then moved on to a bigger guild with our blessing) it does rock.

that doesnt seem to be an option for you on your server but if you know people who play you might consider a server move to one with some friends.

[sturmhauke]

This is why I’ve switched to EVE Online. Not that there aren’t drama queens there, but people who are complete morons will not be able to hack it in the New Eden galaxy and will leave. If somehow they don’t leave, you can prey on them.

[Jolly_Roger]

I was on a low level character last 2 nights ago and met a player that claims to be a middle aged lawyer. (just from conversation…we were chatting in game while killing defias thugs and the like in Westfall…I have no reason to him think he wa lying). Anyway we added each other to friends lists and he seems like an okay person.

He said this was his first character and he’s glad to have met a mature person in game. I guess he had a few bad PUGs early on. I hope to run into him again. I wouldn’t mind forming a guild of RL older players.

[Nava]

Apparently there’s some people who specifically love creating Scarlet Monastery groups in order to wait until everybody else is there and then going “kthxbye.” Why SM? Because the 30s are a relatively boring decade and SM is several miles behind the ass-end of nowhere, that’s why.

A guildie of my warrior’s was very surprised when he was laughing about having invited a couple “babies” for a SM run and then dropped them… and I said “ah yes, that paladin? That was me, so next time you need a tank ask somebody else, willya? kthxbye!”

Most of my guilds have required 18+; one of my current ones doesn’t and I can already smell a splinter happening: the core group of “over 25” folks I’ve been playing with for 3 years barely talk on guild channel, which is a bad sign given how talkative we normally are.

[CandidGamera]

I quit playing WoW because the teaming sucks.

[Jolly_Roger]

@Nava

Apparently there’s some people who specifically love creating Scarlet Monastery groups in order to wait until everybody else is there and then going “kthxbye.” Why SM? Because the 30s are a relatively boring decade and SM is several miles behind the ass-end of nowhere, that’s why.

A guildie of my warrior’s was very surprised when he was laughing about having invited a couple “babies” for a SM run and then dropped them… and I said “ah yes, that paladin? That was me, so next time you need a tank ask somebody else, willya? kthxbye!”

.

Its not just in WoW that it happens in. There have been plenty of Task Force missions I’ve been involved in playing **City of Heroes **where people assemble a team and then drop out. Its reall frustrating in CoX because the travel times aren’t as high as in WoW. Theres really little excuse for it. The one that sticks in my mind the most was the guy that begged me to join his Task Force and I did with the warning that it was almost midnight for me, so we had to get rolling soon. I was going to log out but I figured it was friday night so I can stay up late to do this even though I was tired. So I meet the guy by the mission giver. And wait. A few other people show up. We wait. We do half of the first mission in the TF and the guy says "Oh, I gotta go. I’m supposed to meet my parents in 20 minutes to take them out to dinner." I was like "WTF? Dude you’re saying you knew you had fucking plans yet you assembled a TF?." Seriously, if you know you’re not going to be able to play for very long why waste other people’s time? Thats why I never do TFs in CoX anymore. People always have to leave before the TF is finished and you can’t recruit anyone else once the TF is started.

***The Scarlet Monestary ***thing you mentioned…that sucks. Its not easy to get there with a lower level character as you’ll have to travel to the ass end of Azeroth and fight your way there, too. I won’t be going there again until I meet players I actually trust. Thats worse than the guy that bailed on me in the Prison quest in Stormwind. He just wanted some loot so he decided to hearthstone out before we actually finished the quest, leaving me and another guy in the middle of the area surrounded by bad guys.

[Redwing]

@Palooka

If you want to play with better people, you need to switch to a server with better people on it. If you’re happy with your ping to Stormrage, then stick with the Ruin battlegroup and move to a PvP server. The PvP servers have way more people who’re serious about the game, so you’ll be more likely to group with them. If you’re West coast, Blackrock or Tich. East coast is iffier.

Shattered Hand.

Getting into a guild that has a playstyle you enjoy is key. If you’re not getting what you want from a guild, start looking around; don’t fall into the geek social trap of hanging with a group that you’re not having fun with just because they invited you.

[Bosstone]

I try to be as picky as I possibly can about teaming up with strangers. I usually have good luck, as I tend to get a dumbass vibe from the bad ones. And I never, ever, PUG a Task Force or instance (like you, Roger, I play both CoH and WoW). Instances require commitment, and that’s something I just can’t expect from a random person.

On the other side of the coin, last night I took my level 10 Rogue to the SW end of Elwynn Forest to beat up gnolls, and I ran into a poor solo Priest who was gamely trying to fight gnolls for the quest. I watched him try to pull one gnoll only to be chased down by a pack. I helped him with the second pack, and he asked to group. I figured what the hell, and we began to slaughter gnolls by the dozens. I let him have first crack at the quest items, and he stayed around to help me gather mine. Afterward we kicked Hogger in the nuts. It was a productive evening with someone I’d never met before.

[FinnAgain]

@sturmhauke

This is why I’ve switched to EVE Online. Not that there aren’t drama queens there, but people who are complete morons will not be able to hack it in the New Eden galaxy and will leave. If somehow they don’t leave, you can prey on them.

This.
And the rock-paper-scissors approach of EVE means that a well balanced gang/fleet is often essential to running a mission or ganking.

In some games, PvP and/or cooperation seems to be almost an afterthought. In EVE, while it’s possible to solo, the game is built around gang mechanics and players working together.
And yeah… if you’re flying with idiots you can always lure them into nullsec and then pod them back to Empire.