Yes, the bolding was yours. I’m puzzled why you called this out. When did the word ‘infested’ become ‘language that is racist and dehumanizing’ and why, if you actually think that, was no warning given? I mean, if I’m being ‘racist and dehumanizing’ then that should rise to a warning and possible ban (not even possible…an absolute ban), and if not, then why imply I was being ‘racist and dehumanizing’ in the first place? I am totally stunned that my use of a word to describe the mass colonization of a region that was ethnically cleansed is ‘language that is racist and dehumanizing’.
Is ‘infested’ one of the banned or forbidden words on the board, are we supposed to just know this (and where is the list of non-board PC terms currently kept), and why is a racist such as myself still allowed to post on this board after the fragrant use of such a vile term? I’m hoping the backchannel Mod discussion group is looking into this as I feel if a Mod is going to basically call me a racist that this needs to be resolved.
I honestly think that you’re not racist and had no racist intentions, but using the word “infested” for a group of people, you are basically equating them with vermin, which is never cool and has an old history in racist speech.
Interesting. I don’t see anything about race in here. Or dehumanizing. There is a part about it being about animals or insects, so perhaps you are saying ethnic Russians aren’t animals? Or, perhaps your definition from 1602 has some things that are left out of the modern definition?
past tense: infested ; past participle: infested ; adjective: -infested
(of insects or animals) be present (in a place or site) in large numbers, typically so as to cause damage or disease.
Please, educate me Miller, Sith Mod. If it’s got racism and dehumanization in it, feel free to post the definition, then give me your Mod ruling that this is the place we should be looking for to be SDMB compliant with PC terms today.
Well, I can see that this is more widespread than I thought since it seems everyone responding to this thread feels the same way. I don’t see it as dehumanizing or racist, but I guess others really do see it that way.
I’ll have to say I wouldn’t have blinked an eye if I had been reading that thread. I recall that it is used as an insult by Donald Trump, maybe that’s why. Seems he always used it to refer to minorities tho.
It’s not about the definition, it’s about the comparison.
The definition of the word “ape” doesn’t say anything about it being racist, but walk into a movie theater in a predominately Black part of town and say it feels like you’re walking into “Planet of the Apes”, and you’re gonna be making public apologizes for it.
Right or wrong, I’m not sure, but that’s what the problem is.
No, that sort of nuance is not usually included in dictionary definitions. You’d be better served by examining the history of how racist rhetoric throughout the ages regularly employs comparisons of disfavored racial and ethnic groups to vermin and parasites to understand why your post was inappropriate. Maybe start with googling the phrase “nits make lice” and exploring from there.
Or the word “Volksschädlinge” (hard to translate literally, but Volk means people and Schädling vermin), which the nazis had used a long time before the actual holocaust, again and again to dehumanize Jews and other minorities.
See, and looking at the definition I see An Animal be present in large numbers, typically so as to cause damage or disease. Nothing about pests. And in the context of what I was saying, the ethnic Russians (admittedly, at the behest of their wonderful communist government) ethnically cleansed the ethnic Ukrainians (through starvation and deportation) then essentially colonized the area with ethnic Russians.
I definitely see dehumanization and racism, to be sure…I just don’t see it in the term I used. However, the overwhelming majority of you seem genuinely offended by the term, seem genuine in thinking it is dehumanizing and probably racist as well, so, again, I will endeavor to refrain from using it.
ETA: I mean, now I seem to be being compared to Nazi, so it can’t get much lower than that…
I don’t think you (or anyone) would dispute that saying something like “that part of the country is infested with Romani” would be extremely racist, with the implied comparison to vermin, exactly as stated by others here.
Having said that, I can envision hypothetical scenarios where comparing specific abusive behaviors to an infestation of vermin might be reasonable. In some hypothetical world where Russia, for political reasons and from a position of power, was abusing that power by introducing state-sponsored Russian settlers to displace local ethnic groups, perhaps a comparison to an infestation of vermin would not be racist. It might be disparagement of a specific instance of abusive behavior by a more powerful group, not condemnation of Russians as a generalized (or marginalized) ethnic group.
But - that hypothetical world does not remotely correspond to the reality of the Russian ethnic minority in Ukraine.
I’m guessing you don’t consider things which cause damage or disease to be welcome house guests. Honestly, I didn’t think the term was offensive until I looked at the dictionary definition provided, and immediately saw that it would be.
1. To inhabit or overrun in numbers or quantities large enough to be harmful, threatening, or obnoxious: rats infesting the sewers; streets that were infested with drugs.
2. To live as a parasite in or on: livestock that were infested with tapeworms.
One aspect of privilege is never having to think about things like this, and so it can be jarring to suddenly learn that a term that may seem neutral is in fact loaded and damaging. Refraining from using the term in the future is a laudable first step. Further educating yourself to really grok the weight behind the term would be an excellent second one.
The part I bolded is what a pest (in this sense) does. And the usual way to deal with an infestation is to kill the pests. Hence why using the term for humans is generally considered so bad. By using that term, you are implying we should exterminate the Russian minority in Ukraine.
I’m splitting hairs, to be honest…the definition I gave doesn’t include ‘pests’. I did use the word to indicate a group who caused damage and disease and certainly weren’t house guests. In my own mind, I didn’t think it was either dehumanizing or racist…I thought what the Russians did was both, to be honest…especially since it was deliberately done by Stalin, a Ukrainian himself. I was a bit (well, more than a bit) taken aback by someone twisting that to be me being racist and dehumanizing, to be honest.
I guess I can see why the use of the term might be so sensitive in certain contexts, such as this:
I agree, and had I used it that way I’d certainly be in for all the grief I seem to be getting in this thread.
I think the historical context of how the Russian ethnic minority came to be in the eastern parts of Ukraine does have some correspondence, but I’ll refrain, as I’ve said, from using such a loaded term in the future. I didn’t regard it as so loaded and wasn’t aware of things like Trump’s use of it or whatever else it’s been used for that has set so many off on this prior to this thread, so…lesson learned.
Uh…what? I was implying no such thing, nor is it even something that as far as I know has ever been thought of. I mean, Russia is using such bullshit as an excuse for what they are doing right now, and for their annexation of the Crimea…kind of like how Germany did the same thing in Eastern Europe to take territory where there were ethnic Germans.
I don’t think you were necessarily being actively racist and dehumanizing. I think you were thoughtlessly using language that’s been baked into our culture over many centuries of various overclasses actively dehumanizing various underclasses. That’s the whole point behind the idea of systemic racism. We’re all in the system and we all reinforce it, even when we don’t mean to.
That’s why we call it out when we see others doing it (which people did) and that’s why we change our behavior when we’re called out on it (which you will do going forward).