Cashman’s on record as being a “new school” kind of guy (at least these days). IIRC, he’s said that he became more interested in statistical approaches after Epstein’s success with the Red Sox, and has significantly beefed up the Yankees’ analytics department in the past half decade.
:D:D:D:D
Cashman’s also been on the high-OBP guys end of the “new school” wagon basically forever - the Yankees’ top hitters from the beginning of his tenure pretty much all (exception: Tino Martinez) had their skills tilted towards OBP (Paul O’Neill, Bernie Williams, Jeter, Posada; all of them pretty likely to take a walk).
The Tigers are old school? I know Leland is a neaderthol but the team does not act that way. The picked up M. Cabrera who has fabulous numbers. His OBP Is best in the league. SLG,-2nd, OPS-2nd bb-2nd. He is a very good stats choice.
They dumped Granderson because as a leadoff hitter, he struck out too much and his OBP was abysmal .
Inge got in trouble for the same things. Too many Ks and few walks and hits.
But they appear to be well aware of OBP and other stats.
Nope. While preschool may be appropriate they’ve been extremely new school as of late. They’ve stockpiled talent like no other team in baseball right now, have the most envious farm system in the MLB, and have been (more or less) making moves according to a pretty strategic plan (there’s been some hiccups, but none of them have been expensive).
Though I can certainly see how their ineptitude would lead to a perception of old school patheticness.
Had to weigh in on this once more, because i can’t recall the last time i saw so much misinformation in a single three-sentence paragraph. I also wanted to make clear that Boston’s job offer to Beane was not some sort of clubhouse secret that Seth Mnookin managed to dig up thanks to his insider status. It was covered in considerable detail in the media, including in the Boston press.
Let’s take your points one by one.
This is true; Beane did say that.
Perhaps, but if you were never rejected, then there would be nothing to explain, would there?
Here’s where you really start running off the rails.
There are multiple examples in the press, from November 2002, of Red Sox officials making very clear that they had not only offered the job to Beane, but that, as far as they were concerned, he had accepted and there was a deal in place. There are even more stories in which it is made quite clear that the Red Sox wanted Beane, and actively courted him. Here’s just a selection of what is available through a Lexis/Nexis and ProQuest search.
I mean, i guess it’s possible that the Red Sox didn’t put an official announcement on their team website that Billy Beane had been offered the position, but it seems to me that if you have multiple examples of the club’s Chief Executive Officer saying that they had offered him the job, and that he had decided not to take it, then that constitutes an announcement by the Red Sox in every sense that matters.
And, finally, onto Elvis’s last claim:
Beane’s reasons were discussed in considerable detail in many of those stories.
The idea that the Red Sox rejected Beane’s philosophy is undermined not only by all the evidence presented above, but also by the decision they eventually made in their GM search. Theo Epstein was someone who was friends with Beane, who had worked with Beane, and who had a similar approach to building a team. And when Beane decided not to go to Boston, he actually recommended that Epstein be given the job.
It’s pretty surprising, Elvis, that as a committed Boston fan who lives in New England, you apparently weren’t aware of any of this. And that you were so unaware that you actually made claims that are in direct contradiction of what actually happened.
14 straight seasons under .500, baby!
And Bill James was already in the offices of the Red Sox.
I’m glad you corrected this ridiculous misinformation, as it saved me the trouble.
It wouldn’t have been much trouble, though. It took me one Google search to find about twenty direct cites from 2002-2003, most of them in the Boston press, proving Beane was offered the Red Sox job.
It’s off topic, but it’s important to get the facts straight.
When asked what Sabermetric stats he likes, Royals GM Dayton Moore responded, “Runs Scored.” Unless he was trolling, he’s not new school.
I’m not saying that old school teams can’t rebuild properly, but the Royals are definitely not analytically-driven. They are scout-based and Moore makes a lot of moves that fly in the face of sabermetrics (such as signing Jeff Francouer, who incidentally ended up having a pretty good season).
Believe all the cover stories you want - you will, anyway, and even continue to call it “getting the facts straight”. ;0 You also know how the fraternity covers for each other, and that the fraternity include the press. Call those cover stories “proof” if it comforts you.
The fact remains that he left without the job he wanted so desperately. To call the alleged offer a “fact”, one must believe he never knew before that day that moving to Boston would mean leaving California and disrupting his family, and that he suddenly realized it the day he got here. Come on now. :rolleyes:
Or maybe it dawned on him that he really would be expected to produce *winning *teams in a big market, and that he knew he wasn’t up to it, that he knew his poor judgment would be mercilessly exposed, that he’d be ridiculed for it, and that perhaps it was better to splash around the kiddie pool and feel loved instead. Note please that he’s never even considered another big-market, winning-oriented organization since.
Here’s something much more recent confirming it:
In pro sports, “Winning isn’t important to me” is another way of saying “I’m a loser”. And, to point out the painfully obvious once again, that’s what his record shows he is.
Now:
Damn, fellas … :rolleyes: This shit were discussing isn’t religion, it’s just number-crunching. No need to go after the heretics with torches and pitchforks, ya know. Maybe somebody will try to explain how so few of Beane’s hot draft picks ever even made the majors.
Bluntly, it’s based on throwing money at problems, not numbers or even judgment. Theo’s fascination with stats combined with his poor baseball judgment is why we have J.D. Drew, Daisuke Matsuzaka, and John Lackey sucking up more dollars than the entire Rays roster. At least Julio Lugo’s contract has finally expired.
And Bill James’ contribution (besides those absurd “temperature gauges” on NESN broadcasts)? The first thing he did was insist, based on some numbers he came up with, that the Sox pick up Bruce Chen.
Let me get this straight; is it your position that Beane was NOT offered the job, and that everyone involved, including John Henry, the owner of the Rd Sox, and Larry Lucchino, the team’s CEO, are for some reason lying about it?
Why would Henry and Lucchino lie about this? What evidence do you have that all these people are lying?
It’s hilarious, isn’t it? This is a guy who, in this same thread, actually had the balls to invoke Occam’s Razor.
And yet now, faced with a mountain of evidence, from multiple sources, directly quoting the specific individuals who own and run the Boston Red Sox and the Oakland Athletics, his conclusion is that it’s all a big cover-up, and that every person connected with this story in the Red Sox and the Athletics organizations, as well as in the media, is lying about it.
We might not be discussing religion here, Elvis, but your post demonstrates a level of blind faith and unsupported speculation that looks pretty similar to that of the most marginal cult.
Damn. As a Royals fan from afar who has far little time to pay attention to GM quotes, this is the worst news I’ve heard all month.
I wish someone would write me a Greasemonkey script that would put a .midi file of “Jakkity Sax” next to every ElvisL1ves post in the Game Room.
Looks like Elvis is seeking to improve his RAFT percentage.
Indeed. My very first post I was deemed, Nitpick.:smack:
No. You missed the WHOLE point. Point is, it didn’t matter who was better but who they could afford. Pena was a great prospect but the money to keep him was going to be money they needed to put at another position(s). Hatteberg was an affordable player whose numbers were decent.
Not quite correct. Pena was on the team and Beane told the manager not to play him because of poor OBP. The money mattered in the future, but not while he was on the team already.