So the kitchen remodel is so awesome that now I am jazzed up to finally do something about a) the extremely leaky, original 1906 windows; and b) the complete and total lack of attic insulation. I may regret not making this into two separate threads, but here goes:
Windows (and front door, though possibly not at the same time): restore, or replace? There’s some allure to keeping the original windows and restoring them so they aren’t so damn leaky, but there’s also some allure to getting new, energy-efficient double-pane windows. How do we sort out propaganda form reality? The cost appears to be roughly the same for either approach; original windows can be repaired in a way that new ones really can’t, but newer ones are likely to be more energy-efficient.
Attic insulation: doing a thorough job with dormers, etc. is part of a much larger planned project which will take us a while longer to save up the money for. But there’s jack-squat insulation up there at all right now. A friend of mine who also bought a leaky old house just bought a bunch of giant rolls of fiberglass insulation and rolled them out onto the (otherwise empty) attic floor as a stopgap (literally) measure. She’s in the PNW, and if it was worthwhile for her, it’s probably more worthwhile for us in the frozen tundra. I’m thinking it could pay for itself really quickly (fiberglass rolls are pretty cheap). Anything we should consider here other than wearing proper protective gear, etc.?
I replaced single pane craptacular 1970s windows with double-pane high-E windows in my recent condo. The APR on my investment was over 20%. And this in a location where we seldom heated more than 10 degrees F nor cooled more than 15F. To the degree (heh!) you experience more temp extremes you’ll have an even higher APR. And my 1970s windows were far better than your 1900s Darke Ages windows are now. Just do it. The worst you could foul it up will still be a 90% improvement.
Insulation is a no brainer; It can’t help but pay off massively even if badly installed by two clueless homeowners over one unpleasant weekend. Been there, done that. Just wear long sleeves and gloves and you’ll be fine. But do it before summer hits. It’s a much more pleasant experience when the attic temp is in the 60F range than in the 100F range. Do not ask how this former Las Vegan learned this. You don’t want to know; trust me.
Hmmm, this DIY guide is making me wonder whether it’s not quite as simple as just unrolling a bunch of fiberglass insulation rolls on the attic floor…vermiculite with asbestos? A distinct possibility in a house the age of ours.
Easy enough to determine whether or not there’s any insulation up there at all. If none, the batts are easy. If there’s “something” up there, better to quit immediately before you know what it is and have to disclose that to the buyer when you sell the place. As the lawyers say:
Never ask an unnecessary question where you can’t stand the worst-case answer.
Depends on what sort of replacement windows you want and just how nice the old windows are. Storm windows are an option if your old windows are nice and only need some reglazing and touchup work. They’ll perform nearly as well as new windows, with the benefit that you don’t have to repaint/re-stain the interior or rework any of the trim. Also vinyl windows are garbage that you shouldn’t expect to get more than 20 years of life out of. Fiberglass, wood, or wood with aluminum cladding, then we can talk.
Blown-in insulation is generally better for an attic because you can get more depth (you can also layer batts going in opposite directions), but mainly because it fills around pipes, joists, and other irregularities. That’s not really a do-it-yourself thing though, and you need to make sure you’ve cordoned off your soffit vents and eaves to allow air circulation. You don’t mention if there’s open joists or if there’s a floor in the attic. The mention of dormers suggests that the attic is maybe partially finished? We need more information. I’d also recommend looking at cellulose insulation (basically recycled paper shreds with fire retardant). It packs in a little better than fiberglass, and it’s not an irritant.
As to the windows, I think it depends on how old the windows are, and how different the house would look with new ones.
Example:my house came with some original windows (yes, circa1790), and many more cheaply made 1970’s replicas replacements. Where we could, we had the original windows rebuilt/restored (not easy to find someone who can do this), and had the cheapos replaced with exact replicas of the original old ones. None of these are tight and energy efficient, but in winter we put on interior storm windows, a single sheet of glass with a rubber gasket that clamps to the frame. This is tight, and functions as a double paned window. In New England you are not going to need to open any windows until late spring, when we take them off. We could up the efficiency by adding exterior storms, but that would ruin the look of the house.
This window project is enormously expensive and we’ve been doing a few windows a year for the past five years. We also have a hell of a lot of windows. It’s essentially a historical restoration.
Unless you have a situation like ours, just replace with the most low-e windows you can find.
We have storm windows, but they have definitely seen better days, too.
The wood on our windows is pretty beat up. They need some serious love. I don’t think it’s just the glazing. We should probably get a restoration person in here to give us a professional opinion about what is actually needed.
Any recommendations for unbiased educational materials about window types and their various pros and cons?
This insulation job would just be meant to be a stopgap until we save up the money to do our attic build-out. If it’s not something we can DIY, then we will just wait. That’s why I was considering a super simple DIY that would basically just involve unrolling some fiberglass insulation onto the floor. It’s not perfect by a long shot, but it might make a big difference with a solid bang for the buck.
The attic is unfinished; it does have a floor, but the floor also needs some serious love. We don’t have dormers now; that would be part of the attic remodel. We have architectural plans for that, but we couldn’t afford the quotes we got in2018, so we sure as hell can’t afford them now. (We had just saved up enough to do the lowest of the 2018 quotes, and then we did the kitchen. We are possibly now of a mind that we should do a couple of the smaller projects that will really improve our day-to-day living experience in the house, and then worry about the attic.)
I think at this point we would rather restore or replace the existing windows than get new storms. The windows and the attic have got to be the biggest sources of energy bleed in the house at this point. We have replaced all the appliances with energy-efficient ones since we bought the house.
There are 10 windows left to worry about on the main floor, which is the only finished living space, before we deal with the attic; the others are in the unheated basement, or in the attic, or on the unheated enclosed back porch (which we are sure was a DIY and in no way meets any kind of code; it must have been an exterior porch that someone just slapped up some walls around).
The back porch may be a separate project someday; apparently insulating and replacing existing items like windows wouldn’t require it to meet current code, but anything more comprehensive would. When the architect came to measure for the attic and we asked about incorporating the back porch/stairs into the design, he basically said “not gonna happen. If I need to get plans approved that include that, the City of Chicago is going to make you rip down the whole back of the house and start over.”
The house is a very typical Chicago brick bungalow, except that the attic has an atypically super-high peaked roof (14 feet at the top). With dormers, it would add quite a lot of living space.
FYI–asbestos and/or lead paint isn’t a kiss of death anymore. It is a relative PITA, but can be addressed by a homeowner. Basically you need to bag it up and throw it away. N95 masks for sure and a good shop-vac with a HEPA filter. If you’re planning on keeping the house it would be worth addressing.
I had a friend who had to deal with lead paint in a rental, and it was expensive and a giant PITA. I think in Chicago you are required to use someone with the appropriate license to do asbestos or lead abatement. I know for sure she wouldn’t have spent thousands of dollars for someone else to do it if that weren’t the case; her husband is a professional remodeling contractor.
I’d be interested to learn about that. Most jurisdictions give homeowners a lot of leeway for DIY. I got certified for lead paint in CO and it basically involved making sure there was no loose paint. We did strip the house because the owner had young kids, but it would have been an expensive paint job anyway.
Well, as someone who works in residential architecture, I can speak from experience and stand by my previous statement about window types (that vinyl is garbage, and fiberglass, wood and aluminum-clad wood is better). Beyond that, our go-to is generally Marvin, but you pay a premium there. For traditional wood or aluminum-clad wood, their Signature Ultimate line is pretty much the cream of the crop in looks, performance, and warranty. Their Elevate line is a fiberglass exterior and wood interior, while their Essential line is all fiberglass. The advantage of fiberglass over vinyl is that it doesn’t expand and contract nearly as much, which is what causes vinyl windows to warp and fail. Elevate is a good middle ground if you want a painted or stained interior rather than the more plastic look. They’re all great performers though.
Our next choice is Pella. Their Reserve and Architect series windows are their top of the line, but I’d put them one notch down from Marvin, and the prices reflect that. They do have a fiberglass series but I’m not familiar with it. Their mid-tier Lifestyle series is decent from what I’ve heard.
Andersen’s E-Series is a decent choice, but again a step down from Pella. Their A-Series windows have a composite exterior which is a bit better than vinyl but longevity is kind of an unknown. Their 400-Series windows are wood interiors with vinyl exteriors. If that’s your price bracket, then that’s the direction I’d go, but it would still be my last choice.
Are you kidding? This is terrible irresponsible advice. Don’t give dangerous advice for what you do not know about. Advice that could not only harm the intended recipient but impact innocent parties like those that are going to unknowingly handle garbage bags full of dangerous fibers. Not to mention continuing to live in a home that has had a liberal dusting of asbestos after a poorly thought out abatement. It is way, way, way safer to just leave the stuff undisturbed than to risk contamating the whole goddam house and probably the neighbour’s.
There is no safe exposure level for asbestos. Up to as recently as 2016 it was the leading cause of workplace related fatalities in Alberta. Asbestos containing vermiculite would be considered a high risk abatement as asbestos fibers would easily be released into the air.
P100 respirators are the minimum requirement for asbestos, not N95. A high risk abatement of asbestos containing vermiculite requires containment, multi stage decon and shower, negative air fans, air monitoring inside and outside containment. Material has to be double bagged in proper haz waste bags and disposed at a safe facility.
People don’t get sick from asbestos until decades after exposure, they might not even develop an asbestos related illness. Then again they might might die because they cleaned out an attic with a crappy disposable N95 mask.
Well, Montana says an owner of less than a four-plex just needs to take the waste to a class-2 landfill, which is the next town over. And there is no reporting requirement. I was a bit blithe, but asbestosis AFAIK mainly happens to people with chronic exposure. A real respirator is a good idea–I use (crappy?) 3M N95s usually for dust control, but have 3 real rubber units for various fumes. No, it is not something to take lightly, but if you have vermiculite insulation or asbestos ceiling tiles it shouldn’t have to put you in the poorhouse or the hospital. And it really shouldn’t make you turn a blind eye and hope what you don’t know doesn’t hurt you.
And I would definitely do a Tyvek bunny suit. Trying to be realistic here. You do not want this stuff in your hair. Negative pressure fans are a good idea, and not that big a deal. I am definitely more up on lead which is a more limited hazard (although more acute in kids). I remember when vermiculite was sold as a packing material!
Honestly, as far as I understand, asbestos is primarily a danger if disturbed, and one of the main methods of dealing with it is ensuring that it is properly contained. (Asbestos was discovered in the laundry room of my college dorm, among other things, and my first post-college job involved retraining a bunch of Soviet refugees, some of whom went though the required training course to get IL asbestos abatement licenses, so I have run into the issues before.) I don’t think any DIY that we are likely to take upon ourselves will involve pulling up the floorboards in the attic. We really just want to do something simple like lay down fiberglass rolls, for which we would wear proper protective gear anyway. I have crappy lungs and am not remotely interested in inhaling fiberglass, let alone asbestos.
If it ends up making economic sense for us to do something more involved, we will likely hire pros. For that matter, now I am wondering if it would make economic sense to do blown-in insulation of the entire attic if we are hoping to do the whole build-out in the not terribly distant future. I imagine part of it would be pulled out later to do the dormers, but maybe it would save us enough in the interim to be worthwhile anyway? I have absolutely no clue about the numbers.
Can anyone here tell me if there’s anything inherently dangerous about just rolling out a bunch of fiberglass in our unfinished attic? The only reason we would ever need to go up there is for future prospective contractors to give estimates, that kind of thing. We are just relatively clueless about construction, being desk jockeys ourselves, so we have no idea what other considerations there might be. If it’s anything more complicated, we will likely call in multiple contractors for estimates, etc.
Totally appreciate the advice, but I would like to read up on the pros and cons of various materials, comparative costs, etc. Can you recommend any reading material? I would like not to be an idiot when I research and communicate with vendors.
My old town in Colorado allows you to build your own house including electric and plumbing. Not fire sprinklers, I believe. Here in MT we literally have no building inspections in my city except electric and plumbing. Not sure how I feel about that.
:: bump :: so with my dad dying a couple of months ago, we haven’t done jack-squat about the attic, or much of anything else. It seems like I will inherit enough cash, combined with what we have already saved, that we may finally be able to do the attic remodel, but it will take a while to make it happen, between waiting for the estate to be distributed, needing to finalize architectural plans, permits, etc. so we will have at least one more winter before that happens.
So that means that it may make sense to just buy some insulation rolls and lay them down in the attic. A friend whose husband is a contractor said he uses some kind of non-fiberglass roll insulation, but she didn’t remember what, and that she thought potentially we could just unroll it ourselves on the attic floor now, and then when we get around to dealing with the attic, possibly even just use the stuff as part of that project. Even if it’s only one year, it might make financial sense because we basically have nothing up there now.
Anyone know what kind of insulation rolls might work for this purpose? Preferably something that doesn’t require respirators and a moon suit for a couple of amateurs to work with?
