Excellent analogy.
Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy. If anyone was trying to claim that all Muslims are barbaric throwbacks, you’d have a point. If anyone was trying to claim that Muslims are not capable of kindness, you have a point. So, as it stands, you don’t.
I hope your personal thirst for knowledge and truth is slaked, at least a little, by what I posted from Wikipedia. Feel free to adjust your own preconceived and misguided notions & beliefs as you see fit. My gift to you.
And this is an interesting point. While it is true that as we look back on humanity collectively, ignorance and barbarism are a part of who we were. But some of us grew and became more civilized. Some groups, isolated in the jungles of Borneo or what have you, have remained much the same. Other groups, like those made up of some Muslims actively and conscientiously reject such a notion and continue with practices that the civilized world has long rejected.
Another invaluable contribution. Perhaps you and Monty could get together and write a book, a compilation of your thoughts on the matter. What a tome it would be!
Perhaps you might consider including in your “sincere hopes” the Muslims, Christians and other minorities who live in societies where such barbarism is enshrined in law and is part and parcel of society. (See list from Wikipedia supplied earlier.)
Why? If you don’t have anything of substance to contribute, just don’t post—contrary to your participation thus far. If you feel the need to simply piss and not add anything to the actual discussion, the other thread is still ope. Or, of course, you can start your own Pit thread.
Hope that helps.
So nobody wants to generalize about all Chinese cultures based on China’s abhorrent treatment of Falun Gong members? I think China must have the most draconian religious laws on the planet. Even their imitation Catholic church has to swear that they are loyal to the Party before they are loyal to God.
Why do Pakistan’s religious laws reflect that Islam is incompatible with modernity, while China’s obviously are quite compatible with modernity and certainly don’t reflect on Chinese cultures outside of that particular political system?
Speaking for myself, you may very well be right. But I am not that familiar with the situation in China. perhaps you could start a thread on it. It sounds interesting. I’d read it.
Well, having told you before I am not sure internet message board posturing does anything, and preferring to actually do real life things to address injustice…
Anyway, just for you, seeing as making a message board statement will put me at exactly the same spot as you when it comes to contributions against oppression in the world.
I think all blasphemy laws should be abolished. I think all religious states should be secularized. In particular, I believe the policy of the right in favoring Pakistan over India has been a misguided one, and resulted in a lot of hardship. The Pakistani government should hunt down these criminals and punish them to the full extent of the law.
Unlike you, I don’t expect this to have any result, though. But if it makes you feel better it makes me feel better. Hugs and kisses.
Smooch. But a quick question concerning your third paragraph. If you believe all that and want the world you describe, would you agree that the Muslim, both due to its sheer size and the large number of Muslims (even if a minority) that are living with one foot in the seventh century, would you agree that correct THAT problem would offer the greatest good?
Nice dodge, but you and I both know that the issue at hand is not the specifics of China.
Pakistan is not the only country to have blasphemy laws and religious/political violence related to that. Why is it such a big deal with Pakistan/Islam and not with other places?
My opinion…religious violence is usually political. Ethnic violence is usually political. Any sort of organized violence is usually at it’s heart about who is in power, and not the window dressing they put on it. I think we all agree that Pakistan’s political situation is about as bad as it gets. But I don’t see how that can reflect on Muslims in, say, Tanzania.
It wasn’t a dodge. The thread is about the incident cited, blasphemy laws in Pakistan, and the degree to which those laws, along with other barbarism in the Muslim world, indicate that there is some problem with Islam itself, as opposed to a few radical AQ/Taliban types.
So, I was very serious. What you describe in China sounds interesting. Start a thread about it. Or about blasphemy laws in general. I’ll be sure to read your OP.
Actually, it is. But not the way you apparently think it is. That’s not a reminder for you that the thread exists.
In that other thread it was clearly explained to you that “the Muslim world” there is not monolithic and “the Muslim world,” the actual governmental authorities who also happen to be Muslims, are taking action against the individuals who committed that act of barbarism. Oddly enough, you were already aware of that fact about “the Muslim world” but stil chose to rant against “the Muslim world” while handwaving away acts of barbarism commited by Christians.
No. I assume nothing. I merely reminded you of your own action, not the thread.
Well, you could’ve just appended this rant of yours to that rant of yours. There’s beauty in efficiency, so I hear. Also, it would’ve made it more efficient for those responding to you here so they could do so in the appropriate manner without running afoul of board rules. One could easily come to the conclusion that’s the very reason you put this thread here instead of The Pit.
I was under no illusion as to what you can or can’t tell me on the subject.
You need to go back to that thread and read my responses to those points. Maybe they’ll sink in on a second reading.
My action? My action in that thread, right. But what you did was foolish. You must know that I am aware of that thread. You must know that not only was I aware of it, but that I flagged that this one and that one had some relation. Yet, you still felt some need to point that out. Odd. But, hey, whatever floats your boat.
And here we come to the crux of it. You really have nothing of substance to contribute to the discussion, so you’d like to just piss. Well, that’s fine, feel free to post in that other thread. Or start your very own Pit thread. And yes, the pissing is the very reason I posted this in GD, because I like to discuss the issue. Now I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that there is no one standing beside you holding a gun to your head forcing you to click on this thread. If I’m right, go to the Pit and let your freak flag fly.
Oh, you’re SO wrong about that, but you believe what you’d like and go piss in the Pit. Don’t worry, I’ll come visit.
Any chance of writing this in English?
But, as I understand it, what you are dismayed about is not that people are not condemning Pakistan society, but that they are not condemning Islam and/or Muslims? On that basis, a more apt analogy would be to look at whether liberals at the time looked at American society and decided to blame white men, in general, for all of those ills. That, inherently, to be a white man was to have higher propensity for causing such ills? I’ve no doubt that some did (and do), but by and large, that wasn’t the reaction, because it is foolish. Those racist and sexist people (and those who exist today) most certainly do what they do and think what they think because of their views of their race, their views of their gender; but that doesn’t mean that they are unique, or linked inexoriably to those factors.
As to the other points of the analogy - might I be so bold to suggest that perhaps Starving Artist is not a regular on feminist or liberal sites? All of the things that he mentions are most certainly a bone of massive contention. I would suggest that there are two reasons why he hasn’t seen what he would like to see; that by and large he doesn’t particularly seek them out, so when news of feminist or liberal opinion come to his notice it’s because they’re of some matter of debate, like this one here; and two, relatedly, that by and large we don’t see much castigation and debate on such topics here in comparison because by and large there isn’t a huge amount to debate. What is being asked for? A GD thread in which the first topic was “Women should not be stoned to death.” followed by pages and pages in which posters stand up for the right to stone women? magellan, I am happy to say that without you even mentioning the subject I am certain there are plenty of foul acts that you are against. But if I were to examine your posting history, I’m equally certain that I would be able to find some foul acts that you have not castigated to the extent they deserve. Does that mean you are therefore in favour of those things? Of course not. It just means there’s not a huge amount of point in arguing something on which most people already agree.
OK, new rule: magellan01 must start at least one interesting, thought provoking thread before he’s allowed a new round of mindless Islam bashing.
Seriously, dude. Get a hobby. I’d avise ham radio, they tend to welcome obsessive monomaniacs. I’d have said chess since Lord knows chess men can be scarily dogmatic as well, but of course it’s an Arab game so that’s a non starter.
English is out. Incomprehensible shouting is in.
I’m not sure this form of faulty reasoning has a name, so I’ll call it the absurdity of discrete entity, the presumption of identity where none truly exists.
Any idiot knows that Americans are not all the same in any meaningful way, we are too diverse. The self-same idiot will also realize that Christians are not all the same. Catholics are not Protestants, except for Church of England Protestants, who are Catholic Protestants. Or something. Methodists are not Baptists. (The voice of my grandmother from beyond urges me to emphasize that point, Methodists are not simply Baptists with shoes, there are distinct and meaningful doctrinal differences, and I used to know what they were…)
Jews are also not an identity, there are very distinct internal differences, Orthodox, Conservative and Reform, not to mention Jews who are Zionist and Jews who regard Zionism as an usurpation of God’s will.
The larger the grouping, the more likely that such an internal contradiction renders any unity an absurdity. There is no such discrete entity as “Muslims”. The Zen-like mysticism of the Sufi tradition is a beautiful thing. Let me offer my favorite Sufi aphorism: “God respects me when I work, but He loves me when I sing.” Preach it, brother. Compare this to the utterly Calvinistic uptightness of the Wahabbist tradition.
There is no such thing as “Muslim”, not as a discrete entity, but only as a broad generalization that breaks down the very instant it is examined.
So, really, the old saying is true: there are two kinds of people in the world, people who believe that there are two kinds of people, and people who know better.
If I may interject…
My posting history should make it clear that my attitude toward **Starving Artist **can be fairly well summed up by the word “contempt.” However, I think it’s clear that in his post, he wasn’t claiming that a lack of DDT is killing people now; but rather, riffing off a joke that **elucidator **made, implying that a lack of DDT *would *be killing people *if *we were attacked by giant bugs from outer space.