More riots in Thailand

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
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The red shirts, who are supporters of the deposed Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, have been pushing for a while, and finally violence broke out. 18 are dead after clashes between Thaksin supporters and the military.

For those of you have haven’t been following, the Thaksin government was overthrown in a bloodless coup in September 2006. At that time, General Surayud Chulanont became Prime Minister. Thaksin fled the country to avoid charges, and Thaksin’s party, Thai Rak Thai (Thai loves Thai) was banned for corruption (all Thai political parties are fairly corrupt, but Thaksin* set a new standard), but a surrogate party, the People’s Power Party, led by Samak Sundaravej** was able to gain control of a coalition government. He was later removed on a technicality (conflict of interest for hosting a cooking show) and Somchai Wongsawat became Prime Minister.

Yellow shirt protesters, who had originally been anti-Thaksin sought to block Somchai from office. This led to clashes with the red-shirts*** and eventually the People’s Power Party was dissolved because of electoral fraud. The yellow shirts are said to be middle class to wealthy southerners and have the support of the conservative military. A new Prime Minister, Abhisit Vejjajiva, who had been leader of the opposition, was installed by Parliament.

Now the red shirts are calling for the removal of Abhisit and precipitated violence against the military. Of the 18 dead, four are soldiers, 1 Japanese journalist and the rest are presumably protesters. I can’t imagine this will end well.

Since Siam Sam hasn’t checked in here for a while I assume that either his internet is down or he’s leading the clash.

I was personally bemused to hear the anchor from CNN this morning refer to this as a clash of the poor against the military. It certainly is, in one sense, but it’s more about power struggles for the lead of the government; whoever gets control for either side will be one of the country’s rich elites.

ETA: Suppose I should throw a link in here somewhere - Death toll from Bangkok riots reaches 20

*Thaksin was the richest man in Thailand when he was elected. An election review board cited irregularities in his filing papers including hiding billions in assets by moving them under his maid’s name. After election he manipulated Capital Gains rules so that his family could make over a billion tax free in a corporate takeover.
**Ironically, Samak was instrumental in the military violently suppressing the 1976 pro-democracy student movement.
***Really, this is not Star Trek or anything but the color coding does make it a bit easier to know who is who.

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Watch Foreign Correspondent next Tuesday AEST.

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I just started a thread in “My Humble Opinion” to try to understand how the foreign press is reporting this crisis.

It may be a bad idea to view things in “black and white”, but in this case, in my opinion, one side has a very light shade of gray, the other a very dark shade of gray. Frankly it infuriates me whenever I hear the dispute characterized as “elite vs. poor.” Educated vs. rural dupes would be closer to the truth, but in fact the vast majority of the “red shirt” rural hicks who’ve descended on Bangkok are there for exactly one reason: money. I live in rural Thailand and this is no secret. Originally they were offered $90 (3000 baht) for the duration, started going home as the “duration” dragged on, and are now getting $30 per day, a very high wage for rural Thailand.

Red-shirt leaders and their bodyguards are armed with automatic rifles, grenades, etc. and are using these duped $30-per-day rural poor as a human shield. And don’t be fooled from any talk about Thaksin’s “populist” policies. Any study of his behavior in office makes clear that his three highest political priorities are
[ul][li] Enrichment of Thaksin and his relatives.[/li][li] Enrichment of Thaksin and his relatives.[/li][li] Enrichment of Thaksin and his friends.[/li][/ul]

But yes, Thaksin probably would win if elections were held next month under the present rules. Cash exchange for votes is very common in rural Thailand.

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Yeah, Toxin seems to have taken this to a new level. I am very much against Thaksin, personally, but wanted to try and present the OP as factually as possible. In addition to the normal buying of votes, he’s essentially bribed the poor with a few programs so they’ll turn a blind eye to his three highest priorities.

Is my memory wrong, or did he initially try to buy Man City using taxpayer funds?

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It was worse than this. He negotiated to buy an English football team while he was P.M. and when asked if he was buying it personally or on behalf of Thailand he smirked and said “We’ll see.” In other words, he wanted to look at the final deal, then take it himself or pass it onto the taxpayers depending on how good the deal was. To me this episode (one of many many) was clear perfidy, but rural Thais are mystified by my objections, finding such episodes proof of Thaksin’s cleverness and therefore suitability for a job like P.M. :smack:

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Damn. The ABC were not allowed to put the episode on this site for legal reasons (i.e. the Thai government wrote them a nasty letter complaining about the truth being revealed).

Try this. Though it may not work outside Australia: ABC iview

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I just tried it. It doesn’t work in Thailand. Perhaps if I were 'Net literate I’d know how to get it via proxy server, but I’m not.

Could you summarize it very briefly for us, antechinus ?

Dearth of real information is a problem in Thailand. I generally don’t bother with Thai newspapers, which are confusing and poorly edited. That many red-shirts are ordinary villagers happy to get 1000 baht per day may not be well-reported but is common knowledge in the villages.

My children’s cousin stayed in our house, on furlough, during the Summer Water Festival. Yesterday he put his soldier’s uniform back on and may soon be on duty again in Bangkok. Some soldiers are armed with rubber bullets, but my nephew believes some soldiers are secretly red-shirt, armed with metal bullets, and may be awaiting orders to shoot at soldiers!

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Briefly, this episode of Foreign Correspondent covered:

  • the most likely successor of the king, his son, is a joke
  • the way Thailands royal family have influenced politics
  • the law of lese majeste

The king is 82 years old and in poor health who has been revered as a living god who demonstrated Buddhist piety and self sacrifice. Unfortunately his son, the crown prince and the most likely successor happens to be a complete embarrassment for the royal family. The program showed the video of him and his naked wife at a lavish birthday party for their poodle Foo Foo. There have also been numerous photos of his nude wife and girlfriends leaked.

The program covered the kings involvement in the 1992 coup and his close ties with the military. Red shirts are the Thaksin supporters because Thaksin was showering the rural poor with money and sponsored rural development projects, as well as lining his own pockets through corrupt deals. The palace saw Thaksin as a challenge to the throne.

The program looked at the lese majeste law which means people who criticize the royal family can be sent to gaol. For example, one person was given 18 years for criticizing the monarchy. Ironically the King has said that the military should not apply the lese majestey law, but the military continue to. As a result of this law Thai people are terrified of saying anything critical of the King.

So when the King dies - which will be soon - things will turn interesting.

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I suppose it’s a bad time to be a proud, shirt-wearing Man United fan in Thailand right now?

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The situation is so pathetic it defies belief. Police and army are a joke, the protesters run amok unchecked.
The red leaders had been issued arrest warrants and still strut around the stages inciting the mob, an attempt to arrest them at a hotel last weekend ended up with the mob holding the police captive and the leaders sneaking out through a window in plain view of the media but apparently not obviously enough for the police to catch them.
Now the reds have taken over a friggin’ army train heading South, complete with a few hundred soldiers and vehicles. I don’t know about weapons there, but I’ve read somewhere that there’s still several hundred weapons missing from the army after the 10th clash. Seems many soldiers dropped them and ran away.
Also heard the reds are threatening to shut rockets at any helicopter that may seem threatening to them, this in the center of Bangkok…

Anarchy, to put it in one word.

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I was thinking of going to Thailand for Vacation this coming winter. Is the situation too volatile?

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I think things might be getting worse. Protesters have blocked a train carrying military vehicles into Bangkok.. Crossing my fingers and hoping no further violence breaks out.

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As reported earlier, the wife and I have been busy travelling through Vietnam. Gee, doesn’t everyone hang on my every word? :frowning:

But I have started a new rioting thread here re: tonight’s Silom Road bombings that have left three dead so far and 75 injured.

He sold Man City to a sheikh from the UAE after owning it for a year. The thinking now is the sheikh originally fronted Thaksin the money to buy it with the understanding he would “sell” it to him after a year. Thailand has frozen billions of Thaksin’s dollars, and this could have allowed him some ready cash.

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Sorry, couldn’t wait for you to get back 'round. Stop wandering away from your post.

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I just came back from some nice holidays in Malaysia. Just saying… :dubious:

This place is going to the dogs in a hurry, with Thai’s absolute incompetence in solving conflicts of any sort I don’t see how or when it will get better.

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Winter? That’s long enough away that I’d say continue planning. I’d not come to Bangkok NOW, but the rest of Thailand is good for the moment, and it always gets better eventually. Witness the boom years after the military coup of 1991 and the massacres of 1992.

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If you say so, but I’m betting on the blue shirts.

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Don’t laugh. There ARE some blue shirts. They appeared last year as an apparent elite unit of the yellow shirts. Really! Last April, just before the ASEAN meeting was disrupted by the red shirts, a certain politician – I think it was Newin, or maybe Suthep, but I think Newin – organized the blue shirts as shock troops against them.

There are now also pink shirts, who seem to consist of anti-red-shirt academics from Chulalongkorn University. And the Silom Road (just got bombed) merchants and residents have formed what others are calling the multicolored shirts.

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I don’t understand this. I mean, if a man fleeces me, I may admire his skill in a technical sense - but I’m certainly not going to give him a chance to fleece me again! Do the Thai poor enjoy subsidizing their billionaires?

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It seems to be a form of sympathetic magic. The poor love Thaksin because he’s rich, and if they support him, some of his wealth may rub off onto them. It’s worked so far for the protesters who have actually gotten paid. As mentioned in my own thread, the stupid shlub relatives of a friend came all the way down from the North to protest, enticed by promises of payment, but they’ve not received their promised payments and are now stuck in Bangkok, hehehe. And they can rot in the street for all I care.