For all the effort Mormons put into their proselytizing, I have to wonder just how well it works. Around here, the missionaries are regarded by many as just another urban nuisance, to the point where I’ve actually seen a zone of avoidance form around them on a crowded subway train. The Mormon church can hardly be unaware of this – geez, any returning missionary could probably testify to it.
So is there any discussion within the church about the tradeoffs involved – I mean, a handful of converts on the one hand, versus a certain amount of aroused hostility on the other? Or is the point here that the missions are more like a rite of passage for the missionaries, and less a means of expanding the church?
Here are the statistics from the church’s statistical report for 2004:
Total Membership 12,275,822
Increase in Children of Record 98,870
Converts Baptized 241,239
In other words, almost a quarter of a million people over the age of 9 joined the LDS church last year. (Children of record are children baptised at 8 years old, presumably children of currently active members.) Although all 240,000 people didn’t join because of missionaries, I would suspect a large percentage if not a large majority did. I go to church weekly with scores of people who joined the church due to the efforts of missionaries.
There is also something to the “Rite of Passage” thing. Members who serve missions are much more likely to be active their entire lives and have active children.
I don’t have time to answer your question properly, since I’m at work. But here’s a summing-up.
The LDS Church gets a lot of converts. It’s not the fastest-growing church around, but it’s up there at the top. Missionaries are the people who work with those converts. They do not only knock on doors or do street contacting; anyone going through the process of joining the LDS Church will be taught and baptized by them. A missionary working in the US will only help a handful of people to baptism, in Western Europe even fewer, in South America or Africa quite a lot, and so on.
There are several ways that people meet up with missionaries; the most effective way (from the LDS POV) is through member referrals–that is, an LDS family says “hey guys, our friend here wants to talk with you.” As you’ve seen, missionaries also go from door-to-door and stand on the street. Knocking on doors is the least efficient method, but it does find some people who would not be found otherwise. Street contacting varies in effectiveness with location; in South America, it works great. But it still works sometimes in the US, too. In some other countries, they frequently offer English classes, which fulfils their service requirement (I’m not sure how many hours/week it is) while letting them meet people too (no, they don’t proselytize during class). And then there are the TV ads for free Books of Mormon or Bibles–people respond to those, too.
It may be helpful to know that the LDS Church prefers to use native missionaries as much as possible. That is, in, say, Chile, people wanting to serve missions are most likely to be called to some other part of Chile. So while it used to be that most missionaries in other countries were American, because of the large surplus of Americans in comparison to everyone else, that is now quite changed. Fewer and fewer Americans are being called out of the country, because many countries can now supply their own missionaries.
While a mission is filled with rejection, it’s rare to have it consist entirely of hostility. No one expects it to be easy. People seem to feel that it’s worth it, though you may of course conclude otherwise. It is true that a mission is considered a rite of passage for a young man (not so much for women, who seem to be considered already adult), but that is certainly not the main reason to have missions.
Reloy3, thanks for the numbers. But just to jawbone them a little, and given DangerMom’s comments, I would suspect that relatively few converts are acquired by knocking on doors and striking up conversation on the bus. I imagine that in that 241,000, there’s a fair number of people who converted because their spouse or future spouse is Mormon, or who themselves took the initiative.
And also, there’s the question of level of effort. Any idea of the number of missionaries out there, in the US, say?
But I want to return to the point raised in my OP, which has to do with people who are actively turned off to the Mormon church by the proselytizing. Is there much reflection in the church about this?
It’s true that that is the least effective method, but still, 1,000’s are introduced to the church this way. In my local congregation in my small little town, we have 3 women who are getting baptrized this month, all from just random door knocks. Many of my friends from church joined that way. I understand, anecdotaly, that there are a large number of converts overseas through just general stranger contacts.
True, but my experience tells me that they are the minority of the 241,000. Many are also friends or neighbors of members.
There are just over 51,000 full-time missionaries world-wide. I don’t know what percentage are based in the U.S.
Sure, I think about it, and so do most members I have spoken about it. Every once in a while I meet someone who finds out I’m LDS and, even if I’ve known them a long time, will instantly think I’m going to try to kidnap and baptize them. I also know people, although just a few, who were very antagonistic toward the LDS church at some point in their lives and then later became a member. (Again, these are few and far between.)
I think the general consensus among those members I’ve talked to is that it is worth it. Although some people might be turned off, when someone is interested it’s wonderful. Members like me believe the LDS Church has made me a better person, and want others to experience it, too. On the other hand, I don’t want to be a pest, and I have never once talked to a coworker or friend about the LDS church who didn’t first express a definite interest to me. I also think that this concern is reflected in the attitude and training of full-time missionaries - door-to-door contacts is the last resort. Most find other, more effective ways to spend their time.
Also, maybe my mindset is different because of my upbringing, but I have no objection to someone trying to introduce me to their way of thinking, even if I disagree or am initially not interested. In fact, when I lived in New York, there was a bus of a particular sect of Orthodox Judaism that travelled my neighborhood and would talk to people about their beliefs. The first question they would ask was “Are you a jew” or “are you jewish”, and if you said no, their interest in you disappeared and they moved on. I was more than a little offended. Hey, if you have a better way to live or have some insight, I want to know about it. How dare you instantly judge me as somehow unworthy to hear your message. I later talked to some of my observant Jewish friends, who explained it and sort of assuaged me, but I have a very different perspective.
Reloy3, thanks for a good and honest answer. Though I’m bound to say, not many people are as tolerant of proselytizing as you are. I’ve never heard anyone say a good word about it, in fact.
I wonder what the retention rate is for those quarter-million converts, though. What if half of them leave or become inactive or whatever within that first year? I have heard a lot of conservative Christian churches tend to have a lot of turnover; people convert but don’t necessarily stay around long-term. I see no reason why this wouldn’t happen in the LDS church as well.
No offense intended, of course, but that would change the numbers dramatically.
Your right, there is a lot of concern about keeping newly converted members actively involved. And there is a lot of, if not turnover, at least people becoming lukewarm toward the LDS church not long after they become members. I understand it’s a bigger problem in South America, where a big part of the problem, as I understand it, is that in many areas the vast majority of any congregation have been members for just a short amount of time. It has been a concern, and church practices in missionary traininig has changed as a result. There is a greater emphasis on making sure the individual taking the lessons from the missionaries is fully committed before baptism. When I was a young missionary (oh, soooo many years ago) it seemed that there was an attitude among us that “the greater the number of converts, the better”. (Understand, this attitude did not come from the leadership, just us on the “ground floor”). Now missionaries are instructed that it is quality of conversion more than the quantity that is important. Our local missionaries and members spend a lot of time making sure new converts feel a part of the community (sometimes, I fear, to the point that they may feel over-committed and overly-bothered).
I should note, that a large percentage of the 50,000+ missionaries are on “non-proselytizing” missions. They run local relief and humanitarian programs, operate temples and historical sights, geneology libraries, etc. In fact, I had a friend I used to rope with who went on a mission where all he did was take care of horses at a church operated historical sight.
I kind of hope Dangermom comes along and makes sure I’m not saying anything stupid. She is so much more eloquent than I.
I would also add that one of the things I’ve always respected about the Jehovah’s Witnesses is that, IIRC, the number of members they report is only the number of members who are actively attending meetings. It may make them seem smaller than other churches, but it seems more accurate.
No offense intended to the churches, mine included (and, I believe, the vast majority) who calculate membership by other methods.
Hi, dangermom! Not everyone who joins the Church is baptized by the missionaries. When my best friend converted, he asked for me to perform the baptism (since, at the time, I was a Priest) and another of our friends to perform the confirmation (since, at the time, the other friend was an Elder). Of course, most people who convert do ask for the missionaries to perform those two ordinances.
The two missionaries assigned to my ward here told me Sunday night that member referrals is their most productive avenue.
How’d you like the movie, “The Best Two Years”?
A fair number of the single adults from my ward here are actually serving their missions right now away from Bucheon.
The membership reports for the LDS are tabulated by frequency of attendance. In other words, there’s a total membership number and a number indicating the percentage of that number who attend services regularly, who are Elders, etc.
I find that to be quite accurate–and very informative–and sometimes wish other churches would report their membership the same way.
I have always considered that proselytizing is a device used as much to strengthen the proselytizer’s belief as it is used to produce converts. If you think you believe something now, wait until you have repeated it 300 times.
People don’t say what they believe, they believe what they say.
Hmmm… but on the other hand, when you’re out proselytizing, you’re inviting people to tell you, a hundred times a day, what they don’t like about your religion. Maybe they end up convincing you. Reloy3, dangermom, Monty, how often does that happen – I mean, someone going on mission, and losing their faith entirely?
Hey, Monty’s back! I haven’t seen The best two years–the only LDS movies I’ve seen are the Richard Dutcher ones. (For those of you interested in a missionary’s experience, btw, the Dutcher film God’s Army is pretty good. After seeing it, my husband said that they ought to put a warning on it that it may cause flashbacks. It’s available on Netflix.)
As for Sal Ammoniac’s question, that could take a while to answer. Note, btw, that** I did not serve a mission** and so can only answer in generalities and my friends’ experiences. IME most missionaries find themselves strengthened by a mission; it’s a sort of trial by fire for many. (Make no mistake; a mission is hard.) They find themselves relying a lot on God for help getting through the day. Some have found it too difficult and left–sometimes because they realize they never had a real testimony in the first place, others for other reasons. I would say that it is fairly rare for a missionary to be convinced by argument–of course they run into a lot of anti-Mormon propaganda, but if you look at the usual sort of thing that is put out, you’ll see why it isn’t very convincing. It does happen, however. But IME it’s more likely for a missionary to leave because they weren’t properly prepared in the first place and ‘joined up’ with the vague expectation that a testimony would magically appear and they would just become a different person somehow. (There are other reasons to leave early, such as serious illness.)
Several years ago, the Church leadership decided that this had gone on long enough, and tightened the admissions process. They’ve made it very clear that they want people to have developed their testimonies before they get to the MTC (Missionary Training Center), and that they want really committed people. It had gotten so that some young men only went because they were expected to, not because they had any real commitment of their own. Also, if a prospective missionary has serious sin in the past, there is a longer waiting period than previously; no quickie repentance, commitment must be demonstrated. As a result, there are fewer missionaries than there were, but they are much more effective; during the change, missionaries told me that they were getting much more done with fewer people and that the quality had gone way up. I think the numbers went down about 20% at first for Americans and then went back up as people got used to it, but that’s just a guess.
So, I hope that helps. I should really be cleaning the bathroom about now.
If the church keeps records of membership and membership by participation (attendance), Monty, do you have numbers by chance? I would also like to know how many new members (baptized) remain active believers.
I’d like to ask an honest question. As some of you know, I’m a devout Episcopalian. I have no desire to change my faith and I can’t see myself doing so, especially given the church I’m going to now. I have learned quite a bit about the church, thanks, in part to Monty and dangermom and people I knew when I lived in Hawaii who were members of the church. It’s been many years since I’ve even seen an LDS missionary, at least as far as I know. If I should encounter one, how should I respond? I have no intention to converting to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints or any other religion. What do I tell a missionary, especially if he seems unlikely to take a polite “No, thank you” for an answer?
Let me flip this around for the LDS posters:
If you are sitting at home and a missionary for another faith comes around trying to sell their religion to you, do you talk to them?
I’ve never had them pester me excessively, they always politely leave when I politely tell them I’m not interested. I do feel sorry for them walking all over the place on hot days with their neckties.
Siege, most LDS missionaries are happy to take “no, thank you” for an answer. Heck, they’re usually grateful for a direct and civil “no” as compared to ‘polite’ waffling (“I’m busy now, come back later–when I won’t be here”) or outright abuse. DangerDad used to thank people for polite no’s. LDS missionaries are looking for people who are really interested, and they’re not at all interested in wasting your time or theirs, or in trying to make you do something.
I do get missionaries knocking on my door, usually Baptists or JW’s. I take their literature and say “thank you, but we are happy in our faith.” I usually look through the Watchtower.
