I meant that it would hasten the eradication of the Moron faith.
I guess I got it mixed up when the converted-from-Jewish TBM neighbor w/ 5 kids who hears Jesus talking to her through her car radio telling her to get over her PPD so she could have another kid explained it to me. It’s tough to keep all that nonsense straight when it’s blatantly fake but you have to keep looking as though you’re interested in the conversation.
There was a documentary about 7 years ago showing the perspective of black LDS members and the racism they face within the church today; the idea that white is the end goal and people of color will become more light-skinned as they become better Mormons isn’t widespread anymore, at least, so that’s nice.
Not paying attention back in 2001, the last time this silliness went on, it’s interesting to see it happen in real time.
My mother has always been one of the most devoted members, and one of the least questioning. If “The Brethren” speak, it’s good enough for her. We don’t talk about Mormonism at all, or it would cause her too much stress.
Glancing over at a couple of Mormon forums, there are members who are immediately all over the change. It could very well be a form of “virtue signalling” (Is there a more neutral term for this?) in seeing who is going to make this change and who isn’t. Members are posting such comments as (paraphrased) “We don’t know why God thinks it’s important, but His ways are not our ways so it’s best to follow it.”
Something interesting that I just learned was that back in 1990 when the current prophet and LDS President Nelson was just one of the 12 member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, he had a talk in a General Conference in which he advocated this same change.
However, President Hinckley, First Counselor in the First Presidency (and who was essentially running the church as the president himself was incapacitated for years) delivered a public smackdown the next General Conference by reminding everyone else that Joseph Smith had claimed “Mormon” means “more good.”
As prophet and president, Hinckely did institute the similar attempt in 2001. That had gotten traction among members. However, the effort was abruptly ended in 2010 which the sudden launch of the multimillion dollar PR campaign “I’m a Mormon” as well as the LDS-sponsored “Meet the Mormons” titled “documentary” released into movie theaters but which seemed to only do well in Utah.
It’s been eight years that the term “Mormon” has been acceptable and even celebrated. Now it’s back to being a no-no. We’ll see how long that lasts.
It’s understandable that things could get garbled in the translation!
I grew up loving this stuff! My mother is from rural Idaho and part of the really deep, very conservative membership. As a child, early to mid teen, all my peers at church were indifferent at best to the church, but I ate it up. I can’t remember learning a single new concept or perhaps even trivia at the countless Sunday School, Primary (organization for children), Mutual (organization for teens) and other meetings. I had heard it all first at home. We worshiped that stuff.
Growing up in the 60s and 70s, we were Mormon. That was our culture, our DNA, our identity and our complete lives. We thought of ourselves as Mormons and told everyone that who we were. It’s so strange for such a deeply held belief to get tossed aside like that, and how indoctrinated individuals will simply turn on a dime and follow the lastest directions.
It probably wouldn’t be mocked quite as much if the recent history weren’t so, well, recent.
We have always been the Church of Jesus Christ of Eurasia!
Nawth Chucka, you think you are isolated and surrounded by Mormons. Try showing up to a family reunion as the atheist!
Very coincidental, in today’s mail there was a letter from my mother. She has done some genealogical research and sent a list of her ancestors from her parents back to her 32 g-g-g-grandparents. Every single line had pioneers, coming over to Utah or Idaho, with some as later as seven generations back (from me) and others as “recent” as my g-g-grandparents, most of whom came over as children in the late 1840 and 1850s.
Of my 16 maternal -g-g-grandparents, only three were not listed as being Mormon.
I don’t have my father’s genealogy handy, but I would be really surprised if it were any different. He came from poor dirt farmers in central Utah and there simply were no non-Mormons around in that area.
IOW, all of my ancestors back five generations were Mormons, the vast majority of those six generations were so and about half of those that were seven generations back.
The rural areas of the “Morridor” of Utah with southern Idaho and northern Arizona was completely insular for close to a hundred years. My parents, growing up before, during and after WWII only knew Mormon owned media and had few, if any contacts with Gentiles until my father did his obligatory service in the Army. (Not counting his mission because that’s a highly artificial environment with little to no absorbing the local culture.)
It so wonder I felt like a “Mormon” growing up.
Of course, yeah. It’s easy to consider a topic inarguable if it happened 1000 or more years ago; but when it’s 100 years ago and there are contemporaneous accounts that differ it’s a whole other kettle of fish. It’s like how the JWs keep prophesying the end times on a specific date and it keeps not happening; after awhile all one has to do to debunk them is to point out their past false prophecies along w/ their bible saying to ignore false prophets.
Being the Mormon history buff that you are, tell us about the only black woman sealed to JAS in his lifetime…
So the Mormon head of the Mormon church says that the Mormon God doesn’t want either Mormons or non-Mormons to use the word “Mormon” to refer to the Mormon church or to Mormons? Well, that’s not going to make me use “Mormon” any less; in fact, I’ll probably make a point to use it even more, man.
I’ve figured out one of the puzzles. Mormons are supposed to avoid alcohol, right? But the surprising thing is, it’s not because of the evils of drunkenness or the health effects. It’s all to do with names! LDSers avoid alcohol because of the chemical compound that would result: Ethyl Mormon. There’s no business like show business. 
Meh. I generally like Mormons as individuals. Sure they believe stuff I think is wrong, and clearly a little crazy, but that’s no different than all the other religious people I know. They act on it, both the good and bad of it, more than most generic cafeteria Christians, which is both good and bad as well.
My favorite part of the musical “The Book of Mormon” is the song “I Believe” which is basically an anthem of one young man’s beliefs. Each verse has a structure that has the character stating his beliefs in a hierarchy, from broad generalization to very specific.
Now in the show the first line, “The Lord God created the Universe” usually gets no audience reaction. The second line “He sent his only son, to die for my sins” also has people nodding along. The big laugh line is the one about ancient Jews sailing to America. In each verse there’s this structure of “huge honking unprovable assertion, smaller but still crazy assertion, minor assertion that might still be provable” but the laughs go in the opposite order of the magnitude of the craziness of the assertions. In any serious sense, ancient Jews building boats and sailing to America is less of an extraordinary claim than a Lord God who created the entire Universe. We in fact know of ancient peoples who navigated the oceans.
Frankly this is why I tend to shrug off most people’s crazy beliefs and just go with how they treat people. For the most part the Mormons I’ve known in my life have been pretty good people. They don’t agree with me on everything, but I don’t require that of my friends, so it’s fine.
Enjoy,
Steven
I’d argue that your song analysis is a bit off; the “kicker” in each verse is a smaller claim than the two preceding claims, BUT it’s also a demonstrably batshit crazy claim.
Like this version I made myself:
There’s a God (huge claim, unprovable)
This God loves you (smaller, still unprovable)
I’m currently balancing a two-storey commercial building on my head (much smaller claim, but also batshit crazy, AND disprovable in two minutes).
THAT’S why they laugh - the Mormon-specific claims are a relative snap to disprove, and there’s no psychologically compelling reason to believe them anyway. People WANT to believe someone benevolent is in control. People WANT to believe they are loved. People go “WTF??” when they hear the special Mormon claims that are crazy AND that nobody psychologically wants.
Almost every person is acceptable on their own.
However, what people do in groups is not nothing.
Yeah, they treat you real nice, wonderful kind people. So long as you’re not black, LGBT, a woman, an apostate… but that’s just nitpicking.
My family’s all mormon. They’re generally nice people - but the second religion comes up they turn into assholes. Specifically, pushy, intolerant assholes. As an illustration of this there was once a big blowup with my kind-to-a-fault mother over the fact I didn’t want to be in the room while they did a prayer where one person speaks for all the people in the room thanking god for things, swearing devotion, and so on. Let’s be clear - I wasn’t asking them to stop praying, just to let me walk out of the room first.
She refused. I was not allowed to not participate in group prayers while at her house.
I boycotted the house while this rule was in effect, because seriously. (Normally I would have been there a couple times a week.)
It took her the better part of a year before she relented and allowed me to walk out of a room.
So yeah. Mormons are fine people as long as the subject of religion or anything related to it never comes up at all. The minute it does - no quarter, no compromise, no tolerance, no chance.
Oddly every Momon I know is a white woman. :eek:
Mormon women know their place and don’t have a problem with it.
I’m being completely serious here.
When you live somewhere founded on their beliefs and still controlled by their church, you don’t find them as good. Utah is terrible for women, and it so happens that women are 2nd class citizens in the LDS church. Their ultimate accomplishment (women are taught from a young age) is that they will have baby after baby for their eternal husband who will maybe have other wives. In the Terrestrial Kingdom (earth), their greatest accomplishment is that of raising a family and having a husband who will take them to the Temple and bring them from the dead to the Celestial Kingdom at the end of days. This sexism, instilled in LDS from Primary age on up, leads to fewer women having the same advancement opportunities in life as men get - and it’s normalized. I’m a woman and this affects me.
Then there’s the high suicide rate among LGBT teens, who are discriminated against by a church that their whole family loves, that they love, and that tells them if they act on their ‘same sex attraction’ they’re as bad as a rapist, a murderer or a pedophile. A Utah Republican suggested they kill themselves b/c of having too many sex partners. I’m a human and this affects me.
It’s not just the fucked up liquor laws. Or the Pioneers vs Savage Indians reenactment. Or all the businesses closed on Sundays. Or the congested traffic full of 3rd row bench SUVs. I don’t have a kid to be shunned for not being LDS. It’s that a powerful entity in my state has a long-term detrimental effect on the daily life of its citizens through its teachings.
When that’s what you’re taught since you were capable of learning, that’s what you’ll believe, yes.
My ex-flatmate was a dedicated Mormon and a nice kind guy. Until he was excommunicated for being gay. Then he was just a nice kind guy.
Do you think this sentiment is a majority or minority opinion among women living in Utah?