I didn’t know there was even still a debate going on about this - I thought five years of opinion polls had pretty much settled the issue.
In this thread, Der Trihs with his usual aplomb, stated the following regarding Iraqi attitudes toward American troops:
He was then called out by xtisme, mswas, and FoieGrasIsEvil.
According to a poll by the BBC and ABC conducted in August 2007 and published the next month, 50% of Shia and 93% of Sunni, for a grand total of 57% of the respondents, stated that attacks on coalition forces are “Acceptable.” PDF, p. 29.
Why is there even a debate about this any more? I suppose well find out how progress has been over the past six months when (if) they release another survey in March, but does anybody have any evidence that would indicate a change?
I don’t find it at all surprising that foreigners, particularly Muslims, don’t like Infidel soldiers invading their country, smashing up the infrastructure, setting up prison camps in which dreadful things go on whilst continuing to kill civilians and smash cities like in Fallujah.
It’s how we’d react.
As poll after poll demonstrates this hostility I can only assume those who still argue the point are either too ignorant of the reality of the situation to actually take part in any debate or are cynical propagandists.
the only thing this makes me think of is that our dipshit president put those troops in harms way for no good reason. But thats another thread, I suppose. But now all i can think of is how our dipshit president will most likely never suffer any consequences for this once he leaves office and I’m depressed. I’m going to the gym to hit some stuff now.
My only objection is blaming the president for all of it.
The people of the United States wanted to kick some towel head ass, and the Congress of the United States was entirely invertebrate on the issue. We got ourselves a war that has no possible conditions that even political spin makers can define as a victory, or even not a despicable exercise in political cowardice. We got it because we, the people of the United States, and our steadfast Allies wanted it.
Now we don’t like it. Eventually we will either leave, or be killed to the last man. Then the collaborators will be hunted down and murdered, because that’s what always happens to collaborators. And the people of the United States will find another country to serve as our “dangerous enemy” of the day.
War is the business of America, and has been since the beginning of the last century, when the folks in government realized that the people don’t mind despotism during wartime.
As an American, speaking with other Americans, soldiers all, about the way they were treated by civilian Iraqis that they came into contact with and their firsthand accounts don’t jibe with the poll, which I just read, thanks for the link.
Their accounts were of a hospitable, if distrustful populace, in general, with exceptions.
So, that leads me to believe that my perception is flawed because it’s from an American-centric POV, or that Iraqis act one way while they’re around armed American soldiers and say/act another when the soldiers aren’t around.
Maybe both.
Interestingly from that same poll is how the Iraqis questioned (2,000 plus from a variety of neighborhoods…is that an adequate sample size?), they largely condemn attacks on Iraqis and the Iraqi Army…the very Army the US is currently continuing to train and arm…and attacks on Iraqi civilians are quite prevalent, likely moreso than attacks on US troops.
Conditions in Iraq have improved considerably since last August, so I don’t think a poll from that timeframe necessarily reflects the sentiments today. It would be interesting to see some more recent data.
You don’t live there. My Iraqi neighbors are in contact with people living there and it is hell. We have build walls that separate sects. We have begun paying all sides to quit attacking. I heard someone on TV say, there were only 80 bombing yesterday. Thats an improvement? Before we went into Iraq there were zero.
Got two problems with interviewing soldiers about their interactions with the indigenous personnel. First, of course, is the natural tendency not to annoy, vex, or insult a heavily armed foreigner. Second would be the all-too-human need to see what one is doing as a positive boon, and to interpret responses in a light more positive than is justified.
They are certainly not throwing bouqets of roses at our soldiers feet and offering their daughters. But the Miracle of the Surge has not fully blossomed. The next six months will be crucial.
Judging by how how Iraqis are murdering each other in droves wouldnt it be more pertinant to have a poll on whom they WOULDN’T consider it ok to kidnap,murder or torture?
