Okay, some of the people I consider vastly overrated:
Olga Korbut.
Funny thing- ask almost ANYBODY who the women’s all-around gold medal gymnast was in 1972, and you’ll undoubtedly hear “Olga Korbut.” WRONG! She was a bronze medallist. She was overexposed and overhyped because she was a cute little girl in pigtails, and ABC television fell in love with her. (Not one person in thousand recognizes the name of Ludmyilla Tourischeva, who won the gold.)
William “the Fridge” Perry. A mediocre pro lineman at best. A good run stuffer, but not much more. People seemed to have found his girth cute, but it wasn’t! This guy was an outstanding lineman in college, and could/should have been a stellar pro, like his brother Michael Dean Perry. I, for one, didn’t think it was cute that a potential star let himself go to pot the way he did, and let himself be marketed as a joke.
Joe Namath. Not that he wasn’t spectacular, when he was at his peak. It’s just that he didn’t have nearly enough spectacular seasons to justify his standing and acclaim. I mean, I loved both Tony Oliva and Don Mattingly as a player, and they each had a few magnificent seasons… but only a few, and not QUITE enough (sad to say) to justify putting them in the Hall of Fame.
So it is with Namath. He had a few great seasons, a few phenomenal moments. But not enough of them.
That said, I think there are a few highly UNDERRATED athletes. And people are often surprised by the men I name. I think that three guys in particular don’t get nearly enough credit for what they accomplished:
Bart Starr
Bob Griese
Terry Bradshaw
Whenever I say these gusy are underrated, skeptics invariably say two things:
“They’re all in the Hall of Fame! How the heck could they be underrated?”
“Oh come on! They were pretty good, but EVERYBODY KNOWS the Packers won with the power sweep, not with the pass. EVERYBODY KNOWS the Steelers won with defense, and Bradshaw was just along for the ride. And EVERYBODY KNOWS that Griese was just a dink passer who let the running backs do all the work.”
Well, I disagree with what EVERYBODY KNOWS. The Packer squad that won the first two Super Bowls WASN’T a great running team. Bart Starr carried those squads on his back…
The Steelers won their FIRST Super Bowl with defense and the running game. THAT year, all they asked of Bradshaw as not to screw things up. But the Steelers’ defense was NOT great in 1979 or 1980. The Cowboys put up 31 points against the Steel Curtain, and WOULD have put up 35 if Jackie Smith used more stickum on his hands. And Wendell Tyler of the Rams was running roughshod over the Steeler defenders in 1980. It was Terry Bradshaw and the passing game that won those last two championships for the Steelers, in spite of an aging, overrated defense.
And finally, I always thought Bob Griese was a very dangerous quarterback. And if you think ANYBODY could have done what he did (“What’s so hard about handing the ball to Csonka 30 times?”), ask yourself: “Why didn’t teams just stack the line against the run on every play?” Obvious answer: they knew they couldn’t do that, because Griese would’ve eaten them alive.
I disagree about Nolan Ryan. He shattered the strikeout record and had over 300 wins. The fact that he was still pitching well into his 40’s is an accomplishment to be admired, not a fact to be used to be used against him. I’d have to look up his yearly wins totals to see what his average was earlier in his career, but stating he had 320 wins over 22 seasons I think is skewing thins a bit because I think the last few years probably brought everything down a bit. SEVEN no hitters and many more one hitters. He had a great career. Not the greatest pitcher ever, but he was one of the best of his generation.
I agree about Joe Namath. One great "call" and a few good years. He didn't have a great career.
Bradshaw as underrated....I don't buy that. Those were great teams he was on, no matter how old they were. Plus I find him completely annoying on TV, which I know has nothing to do with it but doesn't help his argument in my mind. He is the NFL's equivelant to Walton. And that is not meant as a compliment.
Shaq is overrated. He's a great player, don't get me wrong. And he is the most dominant player in the NBA today, but he still is not as great as the announcers would have you believe. He's big and he's got good moves, but he does not have great moves. I know people will disagree with this. I have seen numerous discussions devoted solely to this topic. Is it all his size or is it all talent? Its a little of both, but more of the former in my opinion.
I agree about Deion Sanders. He was one of the quickest players in football during the 90's and a great kick returner, but outside of his speed he didn't have much to offer on coverage.
Keyshawn Johnson. Did NOTHING the last few years and was lucky to be on the SB champs last year.
I agree about Sehorn.
I remember years ago Greg Norman said that one of the great things about golf was that you could lose 85% of the time and still be the best player on earth. I think Woods winning percentage is currently 27%.
I’m going to catch heat for this, but it has to be said: Michael Jordan.
Okay, his greatness is unquestionable. His gamebreaking ability was unsurpassed. He made a joke of the other NBA shooting guards.
But GEEZ, it’s like no one dares to say anything at all negative about him, or even objectively analyze his career.
He benefitted from the infamous NBA superstar non-calls. He had Scottie Pippen, a superb multitalented foward who’d have been the #1 guy on at least 25 other teams, to help out in the front court. Not to mention Horace Grant (a very dependable, hard-working power forward) and later Dennis Rodman (the best power forward in Bulls history, and they were lucky to get him before he went completely insane). And the coach, remember the coach? Phil Jackson, who invented the triangle, which PERFECTLY complemented the whole package. Oh yeah, better not forget 6th man Toni Kukoc. All this talent meant that Jordan never had to face a lot of double teams. Think Patrick Ewing would’ve had a better career if he had this luxury?
And when his Hall of Fame induction comes around, I can almost guarantee that no one at all is going to remember all the help he had, all the favors granted to him, all the things that went perfectly right for him. It’s shameful.
DKW–I agree 100% with you on Jordan. I’m convinced that a large part of his greatness has to do with the circular relationship between him and sports television. SportsCenter (and their ilk) brought us so many Jordan highlights, and Jordan gave SportsCenter plenty of things to show. But if Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain and hell even Oscar Robertson had a media spotlight like Jordan did, MJ wouldn’t be the basketball deity that he is.
Here’s another thing I always thought of as a flaw in Jordan’s game–records. What records does he hold? The only one I can think of off the top of my head is consecutive scoring titles, which I believe he shares with Wilt because of his first retirement. Shouldn’t the “greatest basketball player ever” own just about every record in the book, like Wayne Gretzky does in hockey? Even if you forgive Jordan for his propensity to retire, shouldn’t he own more single game or single season records?
PPG in a single season? Wilt owns that by far. Career points scored? Kareem (hell even Karl Malone has scored more points). Points in a single game? Wilt (Jordan’s never even broken 70; he did 69, and 63 in a 2 OT game). Most rings? MJ’s 6 are real nice, but Bill Russell’s jewelry box full of them is nicer.
Phil Jackson has to be on the list too. Who couldn’t have won all the titles he has with the players on his team? And I also think Tex Winter deserves much more credit for the Triangle than he gets.
Seriously, Elwood, I grant you that Phil Jackson has had some phenomenal talent at his disposal, both in L.A. and in Chicago. But that’s true of almost every coach who’s won multiple titles in almost every sport. How many titles would Red Auerbach have won without Bill Russell? How many Super Bowls would Bill Parcells have won without Lawrence Taylor? How many World Series would Casey Stengel have won without Mickey Mantle?
Phil Jackson IS an arrogant guy, and he annoys me as much as he does anybody else. But give the devil his due- he did what Doug Collins couldn’t do in Chicago, and what Del Harris couldn’t do in L.A.: he got a superstar to buy into his system and to play to his potential. And that is NOT a small accomplishment!
SOMETIMES, you see a coach who’s lucky enough to have a lot of superstars, who doesn’t seem to do much, and who manages to win a championship or two just by standing around (Barry Switzer did that with the Cowboys). But love him or hate him (I hate him!), Phil Jackson isn’t one of those guys.
Actually, longtime Bulls assistant Tex Winters invented the triangle offense and was touting it well before Jackson became Chicago’s coach.
And I’d say the “Triangle Offense” itself is over-rated. It only works when a team has at least 2 certifiable all-time greats on the floor. Big whoop. A basketball offense that requires the presence of Jordan and Pippen or Shaq and Kobe to be effective isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.
Michael Jordan overrated? Perhaps slightly. Count the championships, not to mention the scoring awards and mvp’s, in both the regular season and post. I’d like to hear an alternate suggestion as to whom the greatest hoops player was. Did he get star calls? Yes, and so do all the other stars. Did he have help? Yup, I think everyone admits Pippen was a big part of it. Bird had McHale, Magic had Kareem etc. etc.
But Jordan has six rings.
Back to the OP: I’d have to go with Reggie Jackson, even though I am a life long Yankee fan. Some great postseason moments and a lot of home runs, but a very ordinary .262 lifetime batting average and 2,597 strikeouts. Whew.
Reggie Jackson was a great, great player. He struck out a lot and only hit .262, but he was a better hitter than Pete Rose or a lot of guys with higher batting averages, because he hit home runs and drew walks.
He also played almost his entire career in parks that favoured the pitcher and in an era where they didn’t score as many runs as they do today. His 1969 season, when he hit 47 homers for Oakland, taken in context, was better than Sammy Sosa’s 66-homer season. It was better than any season Ken Griffey Jr. has ever had. It was, in fact, arguably as good or better than any season HANK AARON ever had (of course, Aaron had that season about fifteen times.)
Jackson was kind of overrated for awhile there when he was with the Yankees, but I don’t notice that people really talk about him anymore. He mostly stayed out of baseball after he quit playing; did a little broadcasting, not much. Out of sight, out of mind, I guess. I don’t think you can say he’s gotten the undeserving post-career adulation that Nolan Ryan has.
A group of players that tend to be overrated by certain hobbyists: the career baseball minor leaguers of the 1920’s and 1930’s.
People, over the years, have tended to look at their statistics in the minor leagues, and argue “They could have been Hall of Famers”!
As much as I’d like to believe them, sadly, I can’t. Quite a few of the players in question (“Buzz” Arlett, who is, ironically, the only one I believe the hype about, Frank Shellenback, Bill Thomas, Ox Eckhardt, Jigger Statz) have inflated statistics from playing in the PCL, which had 200-game seasons at that time. Moreover, they’re big fish in small ponds. When brought up to the majors, some proved unable to field (Smead Jolley), others unable to either run nor hit for power (Ox Eckhardt), and still more were free-swingers, who couldn’t hit major-league pitching (Nick Cullop).
This is an esoteric rant, I’ll admit, but one that’s been bothering me for a while.
I can buy the list of players just as good as Jordan except for Barkely.
As for records Jordan has, I believe he is number one in all time career scoring average, ahead of even Wilt's 30+/game. That is quite an accomplishment. I'd have to check on this for sure. It was going to be real close if he retained the record after his recent second comeback, but if he does not have it he is real close. The fact that he could even challenge that record as a guard is amazing. Wilt had the advantage of playing in a time with little defense, few big men and for a few years no three second rule. Of course, Michael had the three point line and Wilt did not, but how often would that have helped Chamberlain anyway. I don't think Jordan is overrated as a player. As an executive, probably. Also, someone mentioned how he had Pippen. Thats true, but then Magic had Abdul-Jabbar, Scott, Worthy and many others. Bird had Ainge, McHale, Parish, Dennis Johnson and (please forgive me for actually complimenting him) Walton who filled in great as a sixth man one year. Russell had a ton of support.
And for the record, no, the greatest player in basketball history does not have to own every record. There is no way the same guy is going to own the record in points, assists and rebounds, which are the three major records to be held, because different positions perform different functions. A guard should not get a lot of rebounds. A forward or center should not be leading the team, let alone the league, in assists. Something is wrong if either of those happen. (Although, for the record, amazingly one year Wilt did lead the league in assists). Maybe two of those things, sure. Points and assists for a guard or points and rebounds for a center/forward. But all three? Should not and will not happen. There are, of courswe, the rare players that can do all three well. Oscar Robertson averaged a triple double one year. Bird and Magic were constant triple double threats. Even if any one of them had played much longer than they did, though, they were not going to be the all time record holders in all three categories.
Phil Jackson, you may have a point. However, I will point out that Jordan was on the Bulls before he came along, but had yet to win anything. The Lakers had Shaq and Kobe before he came to them and they had not yet won anything. I don't think Phil Jackson could go to say the Clippers and turn them into a contender. (OK, bad example. No one, short of a new owner could turn them into a contender, but you get the point) However, Its not like a took over perennial champions and continued the success. He took both teams farther than they had been before.
A lazy slob with two right feet who either chocked or was sent off in every match he played above club level and went to jelly whenever he was outside Holland.
He was lucky his mother nagged the Ajax staff into a trial on the pretext he wouldn’t affect their salary cap. Was always the last man picked in sides that would have won playing shorthanded, which is why he was commonly seen wearing shirt #14.
Oh, and before Coldfire has me banned for this, let me just say it was a pleasure interacting with you all.
Come on Coldie … mate … I’m only kidding, fair dinkum.
