Very great indeed. Killebrew is another guy who had relatively low batting averages but was nonetheless a magnificent hitter. If Killebrew had started his career at the same time as Mark McGwire he would have hit 700 home runs.
I’d like to remind you, in case you’ve forgotten:
No one who hasn’t been retired for more than 5 years!
I agree with “The Fridge” and Namath.
I also have to nominate Bo Jackson. Talented man, but as a football player, he wasn’t all that. Good yes, but not the second coming as everyone made him out to be. I remember the excitement heaped on him once when he bowled over Brian Bosworth. You’d have thought that nobody ever knocked a man down in football before that play.
Mickelson? Are you nuts? He may not have won anything yet, but you don’t get his standings by being bad. He consistently loses, but he also consistently finishes very close to the lead.
Tiger? The man who re-invented golf? I don’t think you’ll find many, if any, players who will not say that he drove everybody to reach their next level to compete. He dominated so much in his early years because as the Bear said “He is playing a game that I don’t comprehend”. He doesn’t dominate as much now because other players have been forced to work harder, hit the gym, practice more and concentrate more. He was, and is, for lack of better words, inspirational, to all of his peers. That says a lot.
I disagree with Sehorn. He is rated higher in many people’s minds for the same reason Aneas Williams is. He does more on the field with far less natural talent than many others in his position. Which brings me to Neon Sanders. He was not overrated, at least at first. He had, not very arguably, the most talent of any player in a long time, which is why there was so much hype. He quickly proved, which is why I can’t stand him, that he didn’t really want to play. He wanted a quick pile of cash, and that’s it. He could have destroyed so many records it isn’t funny. He could have made Jerry Rice or Lester Hayes look average. But it wasn’t about winning with him. It was just about “the big play” for glory. I just hated to see such amazing talent combined with such a crap attitude. If he would have actually applied himself, even a little, the man would have been incredible.
(sorry about that. I just have it in for that guy. The waste. The horror…the horror).
No opinion on basketball. I find basketball to be a silly and boring sport, probably because I am incapable of playing the game.
As far as baseball, I stopped following it until I moved here. The cardinals really are addicting. When I was a kid, all the guys mentioned were my heroes, and at that time I was a huge Reds fan. Bench, Morgan, Concepcion and Rose. I didn’t like Rose, even when I was 8, but he was a damn good player. But today, I am getting tired of hearing about Jim Edmonds. He’s good. Real good. But he’s not even the best player on the Cardinals, much less in the game. I have a sneaky feeling that the sports writers are trying desperately to turn him into today’s Mantle, even when Rolen, Pujols, Renteria and the rest of the gang keep throwing their monkey wrenches into the stat machine.
I could go on all night, but I’ve probably already mouthed off enough.
I would agree about Bo Jackson, but keep in mind his career was cut short very prematurely. If he had played a few more years, I think he probably would have lived up to the hype.
I can’t believe no one has mentioned Ken Griffey, Jr. He was going to be the second coming of Hank Aaron, blow his home run record out of the water, lead the Cincinnati Reds to the championship time and time again. I guess it’s hard to imagine him being overrated now because he has hardly played since going to the Reds.
My all time overrated list:
- Deion Sanders
- Keyshawn Johnson
- Phil Sims
- Nolan Ryan
- Barry Sanders
You can make or break your case for Nolan Ryan based on these random stats.
First, for him :
Strikeouts of course. 5741, #1 all time. 1600 more than #2 Steve Carlton, who is the only other guy with 4000 (unless Clemens has reached it this year). 11 years leading league between '72 and '91. In the top 6 for 20 straight years, '72 to '91. #3 all time in SOs/9 Innings pitched. (Behind Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, both active and who could fall down the list).
#1 all time in hits/9 Innings pitched. League leader 12 years. From '72 to '91, only once was lower than seventh.
Top 10 in ERA 8 times in 20 year span. #1 in '81 and '87.
Eight time all star. 61 career shut outs, seventh all time. 7 career no hitters, #1 all time. Oldest man to throw a no-hitter.
#12 career wins. #25 career games. #2 career starts. 3.19 lifetime ERA (not sure where this ranks). For comparison, Steve Carlton's (same era, also a top pitcher at same time) lifetime ERA is 3.22.
Against him :
#1 all time in walks. #3 all time in losses. Worst win percentage of all the 300 game winners at .526. In fact, you have to go all the way to the #33 guy to find a lower percentage (Eppa Rixey ??? no idea who he is.....515 career). Never won a Cy Young. #2 in '73 was highest. #22 in Home runs allowed.
Career win percentages of contemporaries : Carlton 574, Niekro 537, Perry 542, Seaver 603, Sutton 559, John 555, Kaat 544, Clemens 660, Blyleven 534, Jenkins 557, Palmer 638
One additional knock on Ryan was that his career W/L percentage is only slightly higher (23 points) than his teams’*. At one point in the mid-70s, having Ryan on the mound made your team worse than by having any other pitcher on the staff, though he recovered in later years. Most HOF pitchers had much higher differentials – Phil Niekro, for instance, was 48 points higher than his teams (I picked him because he had a low Pct.). This means that, with Ryan pitching, your team was only slightly better off than any other pitcher on the staff. He might strike out a lot of batters, but you had about the same chance of winning as you would with a non-HOF pitcher on the mound.
TurboDog, you’re misunderstanding what I was saying. I agree Tiger is one of the greatest ever – maybe even the greatest. But fans seem to think he should win every tournament he’s entered in.
*I’ve always thought this was a great statistic for comparing starters, but no one seems to know about it nowadays.
Three words:
Juan Pablo Montoya
Michael Schumacher has earned his reputation as one of the greatest Formula 1 drivers, from Jordan to Bennetton to Ferrari. The instant Juan comes to F1 (in a top team), the buzz was (and still is) all about how he’s going to unseat Michael … and he has YET to prove himself. Now, don’t get me wrong, Juan is a good driver (one of the smoothest at times), but can’t stand the unwarranted speculation and the arrogance it fosters in him.
dammit! dammit! dammit! 5 years retired … sorry, gang … too early in the morning. I didn’t read the OP carefully enough. :smack: