Most people are idiots. Comments?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I think this is the most appropriate forum to ask this since although these message boards are plenty filled with idiocy, I feel there exists here a relatively high percentage of wise people herein.

I don’t consider correct grammar and punctuation a mark of significant intelligence so please do not slam me if I slip. Those I DO consider “intelligent” are people who are open minded, think for themselves, have well thought out rational beliefs and values, and base their beliefs and values upon rationally evaluated evidence. A great mark of wisdom/intelligence is knowing exactly where your evidence falls short and leaving an open mind to the possibility you might be wrong. Yet this can sometimes slide into the trap of being too forgiving of alterior possibilities and then refusing to stand behind any position for the sake of die hard relativism…which I liken to cowardice if not idiocy once again.

In my limited experience it seems that the vast majority of humanity consists of idiots. They do not think for themselves, they believe what they are told. They do not keep an open mind…unless told to do so by their respected authority figures. Moreover, the blind unthinking followers fail to even choose their authority figures with any intelligence, usually adopting them randomly.

The few humans who do try to think, fail miserably at the task. They fail to rationally evaluate their evidence as well as their arguments. And many of the authority figures whose opinions are so readily adopted by their masses of followers are not even interested in accuracy or truth… they are primarily interested in power or wealth or some other such petty goal. Sometimes their only interest is winning a debate or putting their timid mind at ease.

I personally strive to be wise and intelligent in how I live my life and in regards to what I believe and value. Yet in doing so I find myself in a small small minority. It is as if I am a part of an entirely distinct species. There are the thinkers and the dopes. I slink around trying not to arouse too much attention from the gun wielding moron electing masses…keeping my eyes alert for signs of intelligent life in my fellow humans…

So does anyone else share similiar feelings?

2

This seems to be a survey-type question, and as such, belongs over in IMHO. That said…

The human tendancy to take things on faith is not only not a sign of idiocy, it’s an essential part of what makes up our intelligence. For instance: I’m a relativistic physicist. One of the early experiments which played an essential role in the development and acceptance of relativity was the Michaelson-Morley experiment, which showed that the speed of light was independent of the observer’s reference frame. Now, I’ve never performed that experiment myself, nor even seen it performed by another. Nonetheless, I hear accounts of that experiment from others whom I consider reliable, and I can accept that it is true and proceed from there with the Theory of Relativity. I don’t need to personally verify every result in physics; if I tried to do so, I wouldn’t have time to do anything else, such as adding new results of my own.

The problem only comes when people rely on sources that are not, in fact reliable, and the reliability of a source can be difficult to determine.

3

Whatever you say.

What does this mean?

4

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So does anyone else share similiar feelings?

Are morals included in " wise " ?

Can one be wise without morals ?

Are morals simplistic ?

5

I agree that this sounds more like IMHO or GD than GQ, but while it’s here I’ll chip in:

I think most people are trying to survive and get by. One of the methods that biologists (and anthropologists and others) measure the success and potential for success of an individual, a species, a tribe, or a civilization is the amount of energy expended by each individual to survive.

Based on that limited and limiting measure, people who choose to not expend great energy in being more than minimally aware of their environment are simply following good survival techniques. They know enough to get to work, to keep a job, to find food and shelter, and to breed. Beyond that, they do not spend an inordinate amount of time becoming “wise.”

It is not the path that I would choose, but it does not mean that they are idiots (literally, capable of knowing only themselves). Nor does it mean that they are idiots (figuratively, not smart enough to live life my way).

I can get frustrated by the ignorant and the selfish, but I don’t know that I need to condemn them; they are getting by.

6

How open-minded is it to assume that most people are idiots?

For what it’s worth, a long time ago I used to be smart and I used to share your unempowering view of the world. My world was full of idiots. Then KAZAM! (blinding flash of insight) I realized, I saw only idiots because I was *looking for * only idiots. In short, I seized on the things that validated my beliefs, and I was at best uninterested in those things that didn’t.

Once my eyes (and mind) were opened, I realized people transcend easy labels. And overnight my world became a much happier place. Ever since that fateful day I’ve run into a lot fewer idiots and a lot more really cool people. I don’t agree with them all, I don’t like them all, I don’t hold all of them in equal regard. But with precious few exceptions, I can find something admirable about all of them. And I’m working on those exceptions…

Like I said, I used to be smart. Now I’m just me.

7

i might agree with morons tho.

the trouble is the bullsh!t factor. i have encountered people who are quite intelligent yet shockingly ignorant on some subjects. i started asking people questions i already knew the answers to when i was in grammar school. people will tell you crazy sh!t. i trusted books more than adults. and a kid may have to pretend he/she believes stupid nonsense or get a$$ kicked by moronic adult.

i’m using the internet to promote my pet peeve. planned obsolescence. i understood this was going on in automobiles when i was in grammar school. it’s 30 years after the MOON LANDING. why are we redesigning piston engine machines that roll along the ground at less than 130 mph? why loose 30% depreciation in the 1st year on a $30,000 machine? i’ve talked to people who say they have never heard of planned obsolescence. someone on the internet told me planned obsolescence was GOOD FOR THE ECONOMY. our economists never say that. apparently our economists never heard of it.

i know, we’re living in THE MATRIX. some people have figured out more about reality than others. some people are lying. some people are hiding information. some people don’t give a sh!t. some people are morons. choose your own conspiracy theory.

                                              Dal Timgar
8

Nope. It’s not that most people are idiots.

All people are idiots. I’m an idiot. You’re an idiot. George W. Bush is an idiot. Thomas Edison was an idiot.

It’s the Dilbert Principle, which itself is based upon the Peter Principle. The Peter Principle says that, in a hierarchy, people rise until they reach their level of incompetence. The Dilbert Principle says that everyone is already incompetent, but that they rise in a hierarchy until it becomes obvious.

So stop whining about your incompetent cow-orkers, your incompetent boss, incompetent politicians, relatives, pets, or whatever. Of course they’re incompetent. They think you’re incompetent, too. And they’re right.

9

Oh, I dunno. Among the membership of this message board, for example, I’d say a good 98% or better would have known this is not a General Question.

Off to IMHO.

10

Without even having read the OP…

One of my housemates reckons that individuals are reasonably intelligent. People (plural) are morons.

11

Kids today!

As Chronos previously pointed out there are necessary “faith” accommodations most people (including “intelligent” people) make in the ontological context of their day to day lives in order to be happy, live long and prosper. While it is a fine and good thing to ask rational questions about the universe and the pole stars we set our beliefs by, people take most aspects of our daily existence “on faith” because, based on most human beings observation of the surrounding universe, this is a highly effective way to succeed and survive.

Wealth and power are “petty” goals?

Haven’t missed many meals have you my little positivistic Grasshopper?

12

50% of the population is below average.

13

First, I humbly apologize for beginning a discussion in the wrong forum. I will now integrate this new knowledge of appropriate posting and use it to help me locate future discussions.

I do not assume that most people are idiots, or morons if you prefer the term. In my experience, most people have 2 arms and 2 legs, with a few exceptions. Also, most people have hair on their heads. These are not assumptions they are conclusions drawn from experiential evidence. The evidence is far from absolute…but weighing it using my faculties of reason I am fairly comfortable with those conclusions. In my experience, most people do not use their minds to rationally evaluate evidence (or sources).

In regards to the necessity of faith. I agree one cannot know everything one needs for practical matters or for scientific research with absolute certainty. One assumes the sun will come up tomorrow and one assumes that your first step out of your bed in the morning will hit solid floor and not boiling lava. Yet, a rationally person recognizes these are assumptions based upon the evidence of ones experience…ones memory. The same holds true for accepting the experiments of science. One might accept another’s results because they have been demonstrated true to you in experiments and inventions based derivative science. Of course, your knowledge of the results of such experiments and inventions resides in memory…which cannot be regarded as an infallible source. In short, all practical knowledge and science is built upon a framework of a type of faith. A rational person can recognize this. In fact, that is one of the deeper hallmarks of intelligence IMHO, the capacity to admit that one is relying upon fallible evidence in order to work within a particular framework.

Neither am I claiming I find no value in spending time with, befriending, and otherwise knowing many of the morons all around. My life is enriched by knowing people, moronic people, evil people, psycho people, and enlightened people…

I find it defeatist to simply reply to my comment with “all people are idiots”. It is basically retrogressing to the cowardly relativism, which I doubt even you believe. If you were suddenly thrown into a situation where you would need your mind and wits to help save your life and you had to choose someone to be there with you, you would begin to discern which people you know use their minds to rationally observe, evaluate, and solve problems. When you are in a sinking ship, whether it is a real ship or a metaphorical one, you want people with you who can help you find the source of the leak and choose a reasonable way to fix it…or rationally evaluate other options. (Of course, in life threatening situations simple problem solving is not the only important faculty, emotional stability is also a huge factor. This to me though comes back to whether a person uses their mind to rationally deal with emotion.)

Rational problem solving becomes far more challenging when it comes to forming beliefs and values. Here is another metaphor (analogy?). If you compare the building of ones belief/value system to the building of a boat, most people’s boats would sink straight to the bottom if an adequate test were possible. Why? Because they believe their boats float because of such rigorous reasoning as, “My parents believed it” “Most people believe it.” “My leader tells me to believe it.” And the very popular, “I am tired of trying to decide whether it does or not so I am just going to believe it.”

Yes, some biological or anthropological theories may claim the “success” of a culture is how measured by the amount of effort most individuals must exert to survive. It just seems to me that a society full of morons choosing morons to lead them who then have control over huge arsenals of life destroying weapons somehow is not going to lead to cultural success. (Unless of course you believe the best thing for humanity is extinction…which may be right depending on what you value.)

14

Um, ex-squeeze me? Then what’s this all about?

**

I think “majority” would constitute as “most”. Also, “people” are included in “humanity”. So, call me an idiot, but I’m lost.

15

Ok I will try to explain that statement again.

“Most people are idiots/morons.” is not an assumption. It IS a conclusion based upon experiential evidence. Just as the statement: “Most people have two arms and two legs.” is a conclusion based upon evidence.

As with all conclusions I draw from evidence, I continuously reevaluate the evidence to see if an alternative conclusion more viable. For instance if I start to observe that 90% of the people I see suddenly have 3 arms I will likely change my conclusion about whether most people have 2 arms. If I begin to see rational behavior become more common or if I “realize” that what I currently consider “intelligent” is actually missing the subtle genius contained in the bumbling behavior of the masses, then I will likewise alter my conclusion.

Astro: Wealth and power are petty goals IMHO. Food, shelter, and some money are probably essential for most people for sustained happiness. (On the other hand, I have never gone without any of these things for an extended period of time. I tend to believe based upon my ordinary assumptions of the nature of reality, that starvation leads to death and thus could not sustain happiness. Yet, I cannot know the nature of what I perceive as death…it could in fact simply be a transformation into a state of pure bliss…or hell for that matter. So much is a mystery.) In any case, seeking wealth and power for the sake of wealth and power is petty.

Seeking adequate wealth in order to provide an environment for oneself and ones loved ones to thrive and be happy is not petty. Seeking power in order to help transform the world into a better place…is at least a little more respectable then power for the sake of power. Of course, if what you consider a better world would be a world in which you are worshiped as a god or one in which all blacks and homosexuals are killed, then I would go back to my first statement (Most people are idiots and their values are a reflection of a total lack of rational thought.)

Unfortunately, the last example resembles the political leaders of the world far more then I would like. As with most people, it seems to me that our leaders fail to rationally evaluate the evidence of what makes for a good and equatable society in which all people can survive AND find happiness. I do not claim this is an easy problem to solve, but I just see little evidence they are trying. Are the answers found in whether or not people should be able to burn a flag, abort a baby, pray in school, have sex with interns, or save millions of more dollars of tax money for people who already are financially secure for life? IMHO, if I were writing a fictional tale about a society filled with morons who elect morons to debate moronic issues then these issues might very well be the issues I would have the society grapple with.

16

You’re an idiot.

17

since i consider the concept of IQ somewhat idiotic i don’t mind playing games with it. an idiot is defined as a person with an IQ in the range 0 to 25. a moron is 50 to 75. an imbicile is 25 to 50. normal is 90 to 110.

so i have comE up with the principlE of intellectual relativism. since a moron is 50 to 75% of a PERFECT normal of 100, relative morons can be calculated. if a hypothetical person were to have an IQ of 150 anyone in the range 75 to 112 would be a moron “relatively speaking” since from that persons perspective his own IQ is NORMAL since presumably he had it all his life and is accustomed to functioning at that level. so more than 70% of the human race would be somewhat strange, if the IQ bullsh!t were valid.

BIG IF!

                                              Dal Timgar
18

Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant! I’ve just spit my coffee out my nose laughing at your comment. Thanks for the best laugh of the day.

19

Yeah, except most people don’t live day to day in The Legend of Zelda. The idea that there’s one right answer which can be determined by the rational application of intelligence and education is a little simplistic. Your idea that there is one objective standard of a life worth living is also simplistic. If you want to make sweeping value judgments about the bulk of humanity, you must be prepared to learn what priests and kings and anyone else who ever tried to fit the whole of a people into one of their artificially constructed slots have already found out: that the bulk of humanity will usually respond by tossing you the finger and going about its frustrating, chaotic business.

20

Beetle99…just as a “head’s up”, you are being indulged and handled with kid gloves so far by the members of this board mostly because of the charmingly juvenile “so few understand me… I am the frustrated intellectual Diogenes of modernity” nature of your post(s).

In any case you are obviously quite intelligent and (it appears) very young. This mini-manifesto of yours would be better kept in a private diary to spare you the embarassment of having to re-read it when you are older and (one hopes) wiser.