MOTHERFUCK THE FDA. (may cause falling asleep at the wheel, compulsive gambling)

The BBQ Pit
41

[QUOTE=Johnny Hildo]
And this differs from garden variety insomnia how?

[/quote]

I am running the risk of responding to you civilly, as though you were really looking for information.

It isn’t quite the same as insomnia. I have never suffered from insomnia, what’s that like? This is just…you just can’t stop moving. Your body is exhausted but you still can’t lie still. From what I gather from insomnia, you can lie still, sleep just doesn’t come. With RLS I know if I could just lie still, I would be able to fall asleep. And I do, once I can.
That being said, a couple Advil usually do the job for me. It may be a placebo, but I, like others, think the placebo effect should be utilized and not ignored.

42

[QUOTE=Ferret Herder]
I did a quick check - the Chicago magazine article cited previously (as well as a few other sources) mentioned only 100 known cases (at the time) of patients who became compulsive gamblers after taking dopamine agonists, out of the thousands and thousands on that class of drugs. They started out as drugs for Parkinson’s disease, which we don’t have a lot of options for. We didn’t have options for RLS, either, until it was discovered they work on that unsettling problem. It’s a tragedy when previously unknown harmful side effects crop up, but Christ on a pogostick, with stuff this rare I really suspect that either no one in the test group experienced it, or no one reported it.
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I just want to clarify that I was only mentioning that article as a point of interest. I was in no way endorsing VC03’s viewpoint re: the FDA or drug testing!

RLS is without a doubt a real condition, Johnny Hildo, and this drug being discussed is a very effective one in terms of treating the condition. This unfortuante possible side effect of compulsive gambling is something that has to be considered, watched for, and managed while taking the drug, but it’s NOT necessarily a reason to avoid the drug altogether.

43

[QUOTE=Johnny Hildo]
And this differs from garden variety insomnia how?
[/QUOTE]
It’s different because it’s a neurological condition where you feel movement in your legs, even when they are not moving. (It’s often described as feeling like worms wriggling around under the skin). The only way to relieve it is to get up and walk around, and it’s pronounced enough to keep you from fallng asleep. It is NOT a sleep issue at all…it’s just something that happens to occur at the time when you are supposed to be sleeping.

44

It’s funny that the possible side effect of gambling bothers the OP but the drug that advertises the possible side effect of death doesn’t bother him.

45

I have had mild RLS, and I found that taking vitamin E worked for me. (Not a mega-dose, just one pill twice a day.) But that may well have been a placebo effect; I don’t know, it wasn’t serious enough. But I do know that it is a very real condition and incredibly frustrating. I heard recently, too – I wish I could remember where; I think it was a TV news story – that due to accusations from assholes like VC03 and Johnny Hildo, there has been some serious research into RLS and it definitely is a neurological disorder, not just insomnia. So fuck you judgmental idiots, too.

And Mirapex as a Parkinson’s drug? Is absolutely miraculous. My sister has Parkinson’s, and considering that what used to be the standard Parkinson’s drug that our father took pre-Mirapex caused patients to develop a tolerance so quickly that it was only effective for about 10 years, and after that the Parkinson’s was basically uncontrollable, seeing how Mirapex has restored my sister to a somewhat useful life (no visible tremors at all, although she’s still lost all her fine motor control) is just wonderful. It doesn’t really matter what side effects it might cause; they’re still better than the alternatives. And she takes a far higher dosage of Mirapex than RLS patients, to my understanding, and hasn’t had any of the side effects that the commercials mention.

I for one appreciate the drug companies being required to reveal the side effects up front. I hate them being allowed to advertise on TV because I think that leads to a lot of people going to their doctors demanding to be given that medication when it’s not appropriate for them; but if they’re going to, revealing the side effects up front may scare off some of the hypochondriac crowd.

46

[QUOTE=Anaamika]
I wish we could have a real thread on this drug and RLS. I mean, it does exist, even I suffer from it occasionally. I won’t take a drug, only because it’s not frequent enough. But I am fascinated as to how a drug can make you gamble excessively. I have very little interest in gambling. I do like Vegas, I like the pretty colors and the machines that do something, but I have no real interest in throwing money into them. If I take it will I suddenly turn into my aunts and go gambling every weekend?
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Sorry to muck up a perfectly good Pit thread with, um, facts but from this site:

There seem to be a few reports of possible links between Requip (the first drug specifically approved for RLS) and compulsions also, which makes me nervous as I’ve been using it for 7 months now :eek: . However I’ve not yet gambled away our life savings (well, or anything else except for 5 bucks I spent on a lottery ticket last month); this may perhaps be because I actively dislike gambling.

47

[QUOTE=Anaamika]
I am running the risk of responding to you civilly, as though you were really looking for information.

It isn’t quite the same as insomnia. I have never suffered from insomnia, what’s that like? This is just…you just can’t stop moving. Your body is exhausted but you still can’t lie still. From what I gather from insomnia, you can lie still, sleep just doesn’t come. With RLS I know if I could just lie still, I would be able to fall asleep. And I do, once I can.
That being said, a couple Advil usually do the job for me. It may be a placebo, but I, like others, think the placebo effect should be utilized and not ignored.
[/QUOTE]

“With insomnia you’re never really awake and never really asleep.” Jack.

48

[QUOTE=Anaamika]
… But I am fascinated as to how a drug can make you gamble excessively. I have very little interest in gambling. I do like Vegas, I like the pretty colors and the machines that do something, but I have no real interest in throwing money into them. If I take it will I suddenly turn into my aunts and go gambling every weekend?
[/QUOTE]
INaD, but I’m pretty sure they are describing/warning about episodes of mania like, or hypomania like behavior.

CMC fnord!

49

[QUOTE=Johnny Hildo]
.

Wow, just wow. A prescription drug for people who have absolutely no reason to take them. This is getting fuckin scary.

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Just fuck you. You have not the faintest idea what you are talking about. I have had RLS since I was a child, but no one knew what it was when I was a child. “Your legs hurt? That’s growing pains. Now go to sleep or you’ll get a switching.” Have you ever tried to go to sleep when you can’t stay still? It’s not so bad during the day because I can move my legs while I am typing or whatever. When you are trying to sleep and your legs want to move…want to move…and they will move. It not only ruined my sleep it disturbed my husband’s sleep and I like sleeping with my husband. But if my twitching is going to keep him awake when he has to get up at 5, I sleep on the couch.

So fuck off for talking out of your hairless ass about something you have absolutely no knowledge of. You don’t have cancer, right? So that means it doesn’t exist? Fuckwit.

I tried every over the counter or natural remedy I have ever heard of. I ate this and didn’t eat that. Nothing helped. I was accepted into a study for Mirapex, and I knew the first night I hadn’t gotten the placebo. It has been a miracle drug for me.

As for the side effects, the only one I have had is very vivid dreams. I have had no episodes of suddenly falling asleep, or uncontrollable urges to gamble. Personally, I think anyone who takes a drug intended to promote your ability to sleep and then gets behind the wheel of a car is a moron. The instructions say to take it two hours before bedtime. So don’t take it and drive!

50

[QUOTE=Johnny Hildo]
Wow, just wow. A prescription drug for people who have absolutely no reason to take them. This is getting fuckin scary.
[/QUOTE]
That’s okay. I don’t care about your illnesses either.

51

[QUOTE=Johnny Hildo]
Let me guess. You’re one of those dipshits who considers alcoholism a disease, too.
[/QUOTE]
I gather from the tone here that you don’t so believe. Apparently, you’ve decided that you know more on the subject than
the AMA, the APA, the Dept of HHS, the Centers for Disease Control, the EMEA, WHO, and an incredible raft of other groups, agencies, and learned individules, public and private, whom all agree that alcoholism is a disease process.

Observing that the scientific evidence is beyond overwhelming, and observing your aggressive and disparaging tone, I can only conclude that not only are you not fighting ignorance, but that you’re actively trying to spread ignorance.

IOW, you’re a troll. Very likely, you’re a jerk too, though mine is not the last word on that matter, and I’ll leave to others to make a final determination. You have less than zero credibility with me, and I will presume any comment you have on the subject of pharmeceuticals and medicine to be baseless or worse unless proven otherwise.

52

[QUOTE=Tranquilis]
I gather from the tone here that you don’t so believe. Apparently, you’ve decided that you know more on the subject than
the AMA, the APA, the Dept of HHS, the Centers for Disease Control, the EMEA, WHO, and an incredible raft of other groups, agencies, and learned individules, public and private, whom all agree that alcoholism is a disease process.

Observing that the scientific evidence is beyond overwhelming, and observing your aggressive and disparaging tone, I can only conclude that not only are you not fighting ignorance, but that you’re actively trying to spread ignorance.

[/QUOTE]

OMFG, I am absolutely jonesing for polio! I don’t have polio right now, but I wish I did. Fuck, I’m weak-willed. Looks like I’ll have to go to the polio store to get some. I can’t afford much, so I’ll probably buy some cheap, strong polio. No matter, it’ll get the job done. I wish the diseases would come to me, instead of the other way around. There must be a better way.

53

[QUOTE=Johnny Hildo]
OMFG, I am absolutely jonesing for polio! I don’t have polio right now, but I wish I did. Fuck, I’m weak-willed. Looks like I’ll have to go to the polio store to get some. I can’t afford much, so I’ll probably buy some cheap, strong polio. No matter, it’ll get the job done. I wish the diseases would come to me, instead of the other way around. There must be a better way.
[/QUOTE]

Be careful what you wish for, fuckwit. You just might get it.

54

What a weird analogy. Polio and alcoholism are diseases. Alcohol is the substance you’re not able to control your intake of, when you have alcoholism. There is no corollary for polio.

Provide some evidence (besides the voices in your head, I mean) for your statement that alcoholism is not a disease, or STFU and go home.

55

[QUOTE=Jackmannii]
As an aside, it should be specified that the FDA never approved thalidomide at that time (many years later it got a cautious OK for limited applications, with strict warnings against use in pregnant women).

I mention this because it is an article of faith in some alt med circles (where the FDA is akin to the Antichrist) that the FDA was responsible for thalidomide-associated birth defects. In reality, an FDA researcher (Dr. Frances Kelsey) withheld approval of the drug (while under significant industry pressure) until it was clear that a disaster was occurring in Europe (where thalidomide had become a commonly prescribed sedative).
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I read up on the story of thalidomide in the U.S. and Canada recently, after reading Alvin Law’s book “5 Steps to Successfully Overcome Anything” (Alvin Law is a guy from Saskatchewan who was born with no arms as a result of thalidomide; the book is basically his life story, and a truly fascinating read.) How thalidomide got distributed as an experimental drug before approval and was used by many pregnant women, and the way the German company who manufactured it tried to ignore all the fallout is another good read (I don’t recommend it for you, VC03 - your head might explode). Dr. Frances Kelsey was indeed something of a heroine.

The continuing story of thalidomide is also fascinating; how it is effective in treating leprosy, cancer, and other diseases and is still in use in the world.

56

Johnny Hildo, if you’re going to rant and rail about medication, it’s the proliferation of non-prescription medication that really deserves it. Your accusation that “people don’t really need it,” or words to that effect, is simply an emotional reaction.

Doctors are trained to realize that most treatment is simply exchanging one set of unpleasant symptoms and side effects for a different set of unpleasant symptoms and side effects. Here, have some antibiotics for that infection — but while you’re taking these antibiotics watch out for nausea, headaches, seizures, diarrhea, jaundice, kidney damage, sunburn, epidural melanoma, vertigo, and blurred vision. If the doctor thinks the patient doesn’t need it, or if the patient is at high risk, then she doesn’t prescribe it.

People in general aren’t knowledgeable about such things, which is why I say non-prescription medications are much more dangerous. They aren’t required to advertise their side effects on TV. Got pain? Here, take some pills — just watch out for sweating, tinnitus, nephritis, bronchospasm, heartburn, dyspepsia, liver toxicity, drowsiness, rash, or constipation.

Or you can stay sick and hurt. Your choice.

57

[QUOTE=featherlou]
I read up on the story of thalidomide in the U.S. and Canada recently, after reading Alvin Law’s book “5 Steps to Successfully Overcome Anything” (Alvin Law is a guy from Saskatchewan who was born with no arms as a result of thalidomide; the book is basically his life story, and a truly fascinating read.) How thalidomide got distributed as an experimental drug before approval and was used by many pregnant women, and the way the German company who manufactured it tried to ignore all the fallout is another good read (I don’t recommend it for you, VC03 - your head might explode). Dr. Frances Kelsey was indeed something of a heroine.

The continuing story of thalidomide is also fascinating; how it is effective in treating leprosy, cancer, and other diseases and is still in use in the world.
[/QUOTE]

Yep. I work in clinical trials for multiple myeloma, and several of our patients receive thalidomide. More often, though, they’re getting its more powerful cousin, lenalidomide. It’s not a known teratogen, but no one is taking their chances. Every patient has to be documented as promising to use at least two forms of birth control, and women of childbearing potential (WCBPs) must get regular pregnancy tests.

Now, I’m no doctor, but I see exactly how these clinical trials go. Lenalidomide was FDA approved a bit over a year ago, and I’m one of the people responsible for picking through doctors’ notes and reporting any mentioned side effects. Every day, I write down and maintain lists of things like “Edema Grade 1, Probably related to study drug” and “Rash Grade 2, Unrelated.” Sometimes, we get Really Stupid Things, like “Belligerence” (as reported by the patient’s husband) or “Reddish, peeling skin” (because, duh, you were out in the sun for 5 hours).

Regular people are getting cancer and coming to the doctor, and some of them are really nutty. Some people worry about everything and attribute everything down to their hangnails to the study drug. So sometimes we get really weird side effects being reported, and if there’s a small chance they’re drug-related (in other words, the doctor says, “I guess it’s possible”), we have to report it, and it may have to go in the commercial. It’s an imperfect system, but it’s really all about full disclosure.

Now, to fight a little ignorance myself, there is no massive conspiracy to keep people sick and on drugs for their entire lives. It just doesn’t exist. I’m not a huge fan of the drug companies, and I think the commercials should be outlawed, but by and large, there are thousands upon thousands of really decent, good people along the road of any given drug’s development. It would be impossible to keep everyone quiet. There are entirely too many checks along the way. I think the bigger problem is that more effective drugs for some conditions already exist, and that insurance companies and such have restricted access to them.

58

[QUOTE=Millit the Frail]
<snip>Now, to fight a little ignorance myself, there is no massive conspiracy to keep people sick and on drugs for their entire lives. It just doesn’t exist. I’m not a huge fan of the drug companies, and I think the commercials should be outlawed, but by and large, there are thousands upon thousands of really decent, good people along the road of any given drug’s development. It would be impossible to keep everyone quiet. There are entirely too many checks along the way. I think the bigger problem is that more effective drugs for some conditions already exist, and that insurance companies and such have restricted access to them.
[/QUOTE]

Well, now you’ve gone and thrown insurance companies into the mix. That’s not going to help your argument against - I wouldn’t call it a conspiracy, exactly, just big business not looking after the patients’ best interests. Maybe healthcare shouldn’t be for profit, just like insurance shouldn’t be for profit.

(Good post and good information, by the way.)

59

[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers]
Yes, but it’s still in the animal-testing phase.
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It’s going well too.

Damn dog’s well nigh unwhooshable.

Now if we could just get some medication for VCO3’s restless thread starting syndrome, we’d be set.

60

[QUOTE=Dante]
It’s going well too.

Damn dog’s well nigh unwhooshable.

Now if we could just get some medication for VCO3’s restless thread starting syndrome, we’d be set.
[/QUOTE]

Bad news. It’s contagious. And Johnny Hildo has it now, too. (almost 70 threads started since he joined, less than 6 months ago)