Surely the line didn’t originate as recently as Mel Brooks? “Please, Lord, could you choose somebody else for a while?”
Take a look at this article which the above quote was taken from. The article was written in 2002 so that amount as gone up.
The fact of the matter is that our support for Israel goes even deeper than this. Israel has cost this country dearly. What do we get in return? Our First Lady gets heckled by people who want us to release an American spy for Israel whose information was given to the Soviets in exchange for raising an immigration quota. I’m no supporter of Bush but this is low-class.
My ancestors were German who fought against their mother country in both WWI and WWII. I can say whatever I want about a country that is more a liablity than an asset. The fucken audacity of people who would accuse you of being “anti-semitic” when you would question this.
Wouldn’t it be easier to just call Mr. Moto a clueless dumbfuck asshole (which he is) and be done with it, instead of dickering over the knotty issue of Israel-United States codependency?
I’m fairly certain that Moto’s clueless dumbfuck assholery has already been agreed to, seconded, trebled and sent to the long-term archives.
Now, however, we get a potentially interesting discussion on present U.S. fuckups.
-Joe
How many do you want? Here, I’ll just throw out a couple of his gems and once you let me know what number will suffice to sway you, I’ll find that many more examples. To be quite frank, and to borrow a phrase, december could have been easily convinced that a ham sandwich was anti-semitic.
Heck, he posted the following article excerpt as a rebuttal to an argument that one could have issues with Israel without being anti-semitic:
He also offers us such things as:
There are also other posters who were/are guilty of tossing out accusation of anti-semitism at every turn, but to be quite frank, I’d rather not name some of them, as the first one that comes to mind has since changed completely and is now an extremely thoughtful poster, and I’d rather not sully their current reputation. There are lots of posters who, when new, were a bit quick to feel slighted at every criticism of Israel, and who over time came to realize that the criticism was indeed targetted specifically at the administration, and not at the people, and definitely not at Jews in general. If pressed, I can e-mail you details, to which you can respond here if you do or don’t find them sufficient.
As stated, actual use of the term “anti-semitic” is not often tossed out, but the implication is often there and quite visible without having to perform major leaps of logic or faith.
I’m going to call you on this one. Find me a post in which the claim is made that the Palestinians are white as snow in this conflict, from anyone that isn’t universally acknowledged to be a sock, troll, or actual anti-semite (as noted, we’ve had a few true, but luckily short-lived, ones) and I’ll be very surprised. I’ve yet to see it. The problem is that in a thread about misdeeds by the Israeli government, many of us come in to the thread to discuss just that, misdeeds by the Israeli government. Are you really willing to call our motives into question when we don’t address Palestinian atrociities in every single post where we address the ones committed by the Israelis? Is that a standard you’d like to be held to in all debates?
I have no clue what this is in reference to, nor what it has to do with London_Calling. Yes, we’ve had actual anti-semites here. Hell, we’ve had SF (not spelling it out so they don’t come running again) members come here in the past. Those weren’t the folks who the “december”'s of the board levelled their accusations against.
None have him declaring that criticism of Israel makes one an anti-Semite.
Forgive me, but this is pretty damn vague. Either there are actual posters who have declared that attacking Israel is tantamount to being a bigot, or there aren’t. Please turn up someone other than december, as being put in the position of even partially defending him makes me ill.
Ah, qualifying a bit, aren’t we? I don’t know how this poster would rank in your estimation, but here’s a nice black-and-white characterization.
Strawman. I called no one’s motives into question over simply bringing up perceived atrocities by Israel.
What I was addressing was your grievance over people bringing up Palestinian/Arab malfeasances in threads that you’d apparently rather focus exclusively on Israel. This may be news to you, but there are a lot of reasonable people that feel that acknowledgment of bad deeds on both sides is needed in order to properly promote peace.
You cited a past poster, who was both anti-Israel and anti-Semitic. I agreed and listed a few more. So?
I’m all agog.
Criticizing Israel and its policies towards the Palestinians and the ME is anti-Semitic?
What the hell? Did I miss the memo? How many enemies lurk in your bushes? How paranoid is that?
Guess I am anti-Semitic, since I find some of their policies to be reprehensible. This comes as quite a surprise to me since I like and admire many people that I know in RL on the Jewish persuasion. Guess that utter revulsion I felt at Dachau at the nazi atrocities was just bad schnitzel.
Guess all those Chosen people- friends are just tokens. To paraphrase an old joke: they aren’t really Jews; they’re Jew-ish…<rimshot>
I really don’t care who or what or how they worship Yahw-h. Why would it matter to me? But any country’s policies DO matter to me, when they impact on me. What kind of thinking is this–that an adversary is an enemy? And the lucidifier (attempting to cement new name for ya) has not proclaimed himself an adversary to Jews–he asked a question!
But I digress…
And how does criticizing Israel make one automatically pro-Palestine?
Where have I heard all of this type of nonsense before? Oh, yes, the GOP has used this tactic again and again. “If you’re not with us, you’re against us” and other ridiculously black and white statements. I heard on Cspan some GOP guy saying that once again, there is “proof” that Dems hate Christians because of Dean’s remark re: the GOP being the white, christian party…sounds like twisted thinking to me–and eerily close to this premise that one must love Israel and all it does or be tarred with the Bad Person Brush.
Me? Not so much.
oops-posted too soon. I know several Religiuos Right people who think that the Jews are “misguided” and will “see the light” at the End Times. They act like this is common knowledge and accepted fact.
Read “We All Fall Down”–I don’t remember the author’s name and hate to give any publicity to this incredible waste of paper and time–but the whole theory is laid out in that “book”. (sorry, but I rever books too much to give this one anything but ironic quotes)
It is something that made me truly fear for the RR gaining any more power-written by an End Timer, BTW.
Then you’re blind. Hell, he even states that the movement against the Iraq war leans towards anti-semitism.
I offered to via e-mail or any other method of your choosing, as long as they don’t get dragged out here. To be honest, it’s a waste of time, as if you don’t see it in december’s statements, you won’t see it anywhere. Also quite frankly, I like the posters I’m referring to, and wish to keep them out of the debate. You’re the only one who is making the claims, so I’m currently working with the assumption that you’re the only person so blind as to believe them. If you ever do see it in any of december’s posts, let me know that you’ve seen the light and I’ll e-mail you some others, just so you’ll see he wasn’t alone.
Of course I’m qualifying. I admitted that we sometimes have trolls who post anti-semitic crap. They’re also universally called out by all parties on all sides of the debate. These trolls aren’t the folks whose motives were called into question by december. As for your black-and-white characterization, I call bullshit. One, he characterizes Palestinians as an “oppressed” people, which doesn’t say anything about them being snow white. Blacks have long been oppressed in South Africa, but that doesn’t make them innocent of all misdeeds. He also later clarifies that his main issue is with the cite itself, Arutz-Sheva, which makes WorldNetDaily look like a bastion of good journalism in comparison. If you wish to make the claim that Sevastapol is anti-semitic, knock yourself out, but that post doesn’t do it.
It was in response to your own strawman, in which you state:
Who are these people who find the Palestinians snow white and Israel starkly evil?
As those of us who debate in such threads are really, really, really tired of explaining to people like yourself, we’d be more than happy to discuss the problems we have with the Palestinians if that is what the thread topic was about. Hell, some of us even give you your bone in threads where it’s not warranted, just to avoid the same old hijack every time.
Let me repeat it again, just to make it very clear:
In threads relating to Israeli atrocities against Palestinians, we are not required to voice our disapproval of Palestinian atrocities before we are allowed to contribute to the actual topic.
In threads relating to the mistreatment of prisoners at Abu Ghraib, Gitmo, etc., we are not required to voice our disapproval of the methods used by the North Koreans, Saddam Hussein, or even the freaking terrorists themselves before we are allowed to contribute to the actual topic.
In threads relating to discrimination against blacks, we are not required to voice our disapproval of the treatment of indentured Irish immigrants before we are allowed to contribute to the actual topic.
The above statements in no way denote approval of the behavior of the Palestinian Authority, North Korea, Saddam Hussein, terrorists, or those who held indentured servants, and implying that they do is stupid.
You want us to bitch about corruption in Arafat’s regime, for example? Start a fucking thread about it. Stop hijacking a thread where we’re discussing Israel.
DMC, your evasions, strawmen, misquotes and distortions have become tiresome.
You don’t have the cites, and instead make excuses about why you can’t provide them. I give you a clear example of the sort of black-and-white thinking that you asked for, and you retreat into literalism to avoid admitting it. And you know quite well I did not characterize sevastopol as an anti-Semite. It is dishonest of you to suggest otherwise. You seem to be fishing for denunciations to support your feelings of persecution.
I know, it’s a real bitch to have to deal with a balanced appraisal of the topic and hear opinions from all sides.
But I forget. You’re not interested in honest debate…
Like?
I did provide cites. I then stated that if you didn’t like those, you certainly wouldn’t like the others, as the three I provided were more convincing in my opinion.
Are you claiming that Sevastopol thinks the Palestinians are snow white? You used that response when I called you on your “snow white” statement, so feel free to clarify what that link is supposed to represent if not the above.
Hell, I haven’t felt persecuted a day in my life.
You know what? Fuck it. One of the posters who I was trying to leave out of this was you, you dickweed. I sincerely thought that you had grown out of the phase where disagreements with Israel were to be automatically regarded with a suspicious eye. I’m apparently a shitty judge of character. Luckily, several of the folks from that thread, including the OP, have gotten much better at differentiating between those who disagree with some Israeli policies and anti-semitism. You avoid using the actual term to describe the more obviously non bigotted posters, much like december, but that doesn’t mean you aren’t implying it.
Remember this?:
Shit, in that same thread you were trying to tell us all that Gandhi used anti-semitic language, even while telling us that he wasn’t anti-semitic. Of course, no one actually agreed with you, other than december.
I fully understand this being a sensitive subject for you, but stop looking for offense so hard, and try to see that there are other perspectives that differ from your’s, and they’re not automatically bigots for thinking that way. You have rightfully called december and others to the table for such crap in the past, but you seem to have blinders on today for some reason. december used it constantly, and you even called him on it yourself in the past (remember where he thought Molly Ivins was anti-semitic?). Today, he’s suddently innocent.
Your cites didn’t back up the stated proposition, which was that other posters on this board have not equated being a critic of Israel with being an anti-Semite. You cannot or will not cite anyone besides december, using excuses like “well, they didn’t actually say anti-Semite”, or crap about how they’ve reformed now so you don’t want to mention them. You haven’t got the evidence, so you’re trying to weasel your way out of the predicament.
Example #1 of your dishonestry. What you asked me was “Find me a post in which the claim is made that the Palestinians are white as snow in this conflict…” I found you one, you’re trying to weasel your way out of it.
Strawman and dishonest. What is the case is that anyone else who posts opinions that the Israeli population is “psychotic” and approves of statements that its leaders are Nazis, simultaneously claiming to be a Jewish poster will similarly have his/her bona fides viewed with skepticism.
More flagrant dishonesty on your part. I reproduced a Gandhi quote from early WWII in which he spoke approvingly of Hitler. You can’t get your facts straight, and it looks deliberate.
More dishonest, strawman posting. This statement is best turned around and directed at you. Stop being so hypersensitive and hypervigilant, and imputing allegations of bigotry where none have been made. Grow some spine. Cease being a weasel. Stop lying.
Yes. This should bother you every time you look in the mirror.
Hey, you two! Get yer own damn Pit thread! Don’t make me come back there!
Now, now, your Pit thread climaxed too soon, just when people were getting into the swing of it, getting all excited. Can you blame these two if they weren’t satisfied by pittus interruptus?
You’d better not. There are dark shadows back here…menacing whispers…hints of betrayal. :eek:
Hopefully, some rabid left types here will learn a good lesson from Mr. Moto honorable action. That’s what decent people do when they commit even a slight mistake: they offer apologies, openly and sincerely, just like Mr. Moto did. That’s the difference between Mr. Moto and the whole bunch of you rabid left paranoid scumbuckets. You would never admit a mistake, you would go screaming and whining how bad the other side is, smearing even your own with your excrement, as you did to Sen. Durbin after he apologized.
Modern medical science can probably help you with that undivided brain cell.
To put it another way, New Iskander, stating that Durbin was wrong to apologize is not the same as smearing him. Neither is acting frustrated. What kinda twisted mentality is required to believe it is?
Then why the fuck did it take a pit thread then? Hardly any sane (so you’re off the hook) person would call that ‘honorable’. Forced, kicking and screaming would be more accurate. Or ‘finally shamed’.
And the offence was not ‘slight.’
I look forward to your apology to all thinking conservatives for your never-ending campaign to make the world think they are raving lunatics without any morals or sense of proportion.
Hmm, after a pitting, a lame attempt, than an apology with caveats.
Sure. The right is always quick to admit mistakes. Why, George W. just yesterday admitted…Well. Nothing.