Mountain Questions

Ok I have 2 questions about mountains:
1: How difficult would it be to helicopter or air drop somone onto Mount Everest?
2: I have heard that usually the 2nd tallest peak on each continent is harder to climb than the tallest i.e. Everest vs. K2. Whay is this?
In advance thank you all.

After a point, the air becomes so thin that it will support neither the blades of a chopper nor (via the oxygen content) the combustion of an engine. At what height this occurs I don’t know, but I’m assuming the peak of Everest would be above that point.

Hip shooting here, as I’ve done no look-ups. I believe the service ceiling of the highest flying choppers is around 20,000 feet and Everest’s summit is around 29,000 feet.

Too high for’em.

Given the wind-chill and harsh landing terrain, you’d have to be insane to consider parachuting or just jumping onto Mount Everest.

If you could post a list of the 2nd highest mountains on each continent, I might have a better idea.

From http://www.7summits.com/7.html, the highest peak on each continent:

Asia-Everest-8850m
South America-Aconcagua-6962m
North America-Denali-6192m
Africa-Kilimanjaro-5895m
Europe-Elbrus-5642m
Antartica-Vinson-5130m
Oceania-Carstensz-4884m

It appears the current helicopter altitude record is about 40820 ft (see records list) without a payload. That’s high enough to rise above the summit, with altitude to spare. Then the brave adventurer can be lowered with a cable onto the peak. Any volunteers?

Wildly flinging my mental six-gun with no real aim…

What beatle said about helicopter service ceilings. In that 1996 disaster on Everest, two badly injured climbers (Beck Weathers and somebody else) were rescued by helicopter at something like 22,000 feet - well below the summit. That ranks as one of the highest helicopter rescues in history, and was generally regarded as being pretty damned dangerous. The chopper had to make 2 trips IIRC, because it could only take off with one person besides the pilot on board. There might exist a helicopter that can climb to 29,000 feet and still carry passengers, but the vast majority cannot.

Winds near the summit of Everest tend to be quite strong, which doesn’t help, either.

You can jump out of an airplane with a parachute at higher than the summit of Everest - I believe HALO jumping (High Altitude/Low Opening) can involve jumps from 30,000+ feet. On a remarkably calm day, an expert jumper might even manage to land somewhere at or near the summit. If they were really lucky, it would be at a spot that they could move from without falling down a cliff or steep slope. They’d then have to hike down, of course.

A far bigger problem with an air ascent to those heights, I think, would be acclimatization. Without literally weeks of gradual acclimatization, even very fit humans would pass out within minutes if they were suddenly to materialize at the summit of Everest. A typical ascent of one of these peaks involves gradual ascents, overnight stays, and even some descents over the course of about 2 months - the slow pace of this is necessary to allow the climbers to function near the summit. Even if you could just chopper up to the summit of Everest, you’d pass out and die almost immediately without oxygen. Which, I suppose, you could use.

Regarding K2, I believe that the climb is considerably more technical than Everest’s. Everest, for that matter, is fairly straightforward - the only real climbing challenge is the Hillary step, a little ledge not too far from the summit. Other than that, it’s just walking along a rope path, or traversing the Khumbu icefall and it’s many crevasses. Not to say that Everest is simple or safe, but that the mountaineering difficulties are not what they could be.

K2, OTOH, is just a tougher hill to climb, never mind the altitude. The thin air makes it that much harder.

I’m sure somebody who knows more will correct any mistakes I’ve made…

Second-highest mountain by continent:

Asia: K2 (a/k/a Godwin Austin) (China-Pakistan) 28,250 ft.
S. America: probably Ojos del Salado (Argentina-Chile) 22,590 ft
N. America: Logan (Canada) 19,520 ft
Africa: probably Mt. Kenya (a/k/a Kirinyaga) (Kenya) 17,058
Europe: probably Dykha-Tau (Russia) 17,070 ft.
Antarctica: probably Kirkpatrick 14,856 ft

I think these are all correct, but I’m not 100% sure about S. Am., Africa, Europe, and Antarctica.

Yes, Godwin-Austen(K2) definitely seems to be regarded as a much harder climb than Everest. While it seems as though anyone with enough oxygen and porters can climb Everest, only skilled climbers seem to be able to climb K2.

The site I linked in my earlier post says that Carstensz is the hardest of the seven summits to climb, despite being the lowest. I think that the main distinction between the Carstenszs and the Everests of the world is the degree to which climbing skill rather than endurance is necessary. Everest seems to just be a long, steep hike in very cold temperatures with bad weather and thin air. Carstensz is a long, technical rock climb. K2 is a very lethal combination of the two.

I found a site called Highest Mountains in the World, which confirms my list of the second-highest mountains, except for Europe. They list Mont Blanc (15,771 ft) as the second-highest in Europe. They don’t seem to list Dykha-Tau at all.

From http://www.7summits.com/7.html:

I’d imagine that it depends on your definition of “Europe”. There also seems to be a debate about whether the 7th continent is Australia or all of Oceania.

Hi guys,

Lawmill invited me to join this interesting discussion. Most of you are right in your conclusions actually, but let me sum up a few conclusions (some of these are mentioned by the different posters).

As I am just returning from the summit of Aconcagua (5 down, 2 to go…)and still in Santiago de Chile I am not at my desk and some of the following remarks might have to be recalled for accuracy. Anyway, enough disclaimers, let´s get to the questions:

  • Read into thin air as mentioned for the chopper story. Officially the colonel who flew it to get the survivors had done something far more courageous than climbing the big hill itself as he broke the record at that time. There might be some other records as well, but that won´t invlove carrying passengers and enough fuel…
  • A plane drop would be possible, but:
  • the winds will make sure that you have a one in a million chance to get somewhere on the mountain
  • even if you hit the mountain, it will most probably be a spot where you don´t want to be, but you will spend the rest of your short life there… Everest is NOT an easy mountain to climb even from the ´normal´ route. I am saving this one for last (for my 7summits) and it scares me as ther are too many objective dangers. I mentioned Carstensz as being the hardest climb, but that does not take into account the extreme altitude to which no-one can ever acclimatize (death zone).
  • you will die within minutes due to lack of acclimatization and/or frostbite.
  • oh and by the way, parachutes depend on air pressure to keep the speed down, I think that one third of normal pressure (summits of everest) means 3 times normal landing speed (sea level), so better bring some thick rubber soles :slight_smile:
  • The second hightest mountains are in general harder to climb (coincidence), except for Ngga Pulu, which is a glacier covered peak next to Carstensz Pyramid and about 20 meters lower and therefore the 2nd highest peak of oceania. This took just a few hours to walk on with about 6 meters of steep ice (but the conditions are changing very rapidly!)
    The rest of the list seems accurate, but as said in other posts, there are many other peaks in the Caucasus over 5000m, but where the border exactly is is quite a mystery.
    Mont Blanc is the highest peak of the Alps and therefore west-europe. It (MB) is not a difficult climb by the way, but it can be cold and I have seen many people vomiting on the summit due to lack of acclimatization. It also has the record for most deaths (absolute) in the world I think…
  • as mentioned, there is a debate about whether Kosciuszko of Carstensz Pyramid is the highest peak of Australia/oceania. I won´t go in details here, please check out the forum on my site: http://7summits.com for all the pro and con arguments. When I am back i will dedicate a fw pages to this subject.

*PS: K2 is not only harder to climb, it has so much objective dangers that it is really playing russian Roulette…

Hope this helps, if you ahev any more q´s I can help with, let me know, although I might be out travelling. Check out my site and let me know what you think; I will consider to get this topic (2nd highest peaks) on there as well.

Best regards from Santiago (normally Amsterdam),

Harry

http://www.7summits.com

Climb Chimborazo in Ecuador.

From here.

Makes Everest seem like a waste of time. This fact is also a guaranteed bar bet winner.

We need Johnny L.A. in here - he flies the damned things - but I’ll stick my neck out and say that there’s a difference between reaching a given altitude and being able to hover in it. I’d guess the record-holder reached his aircraft’s normal ceiling, then started building up forward speed and then traded the speed for altitude, going into a dive before he lost control due to lack of airspeed.

If you can stay in ground effect, your max hovering altitude goes up, but then you’ll have to fly close to the ground all the way. That depends on the geometry of the terrain, and - when there are mountains around - on your pilot’s willingness to fly close to a lot of rocks in some of the most unpredictable weather on the planet.

Balloon, anyone ?