for the sarcasm impaired
… SARCASM following …
So, do they give all you military types counseling about living in the real world before they let you out?
I'm hoping to finally put this issue to rest, but I'm somehow doubting that you'll accept my explanation. "My barracks" doesn't have a CQ. Very few barracks on the post do. It's used as a punishment, (excuse me,) corrective training method for the buildings that become too rowdy on the weekends.
I’m not sure I understand. Are you saying that promoting a soldier early is a decision that gives the soldier a rank that he is not ready for? I was under the impression that it was just a way of showing the soldier that he his hard work doesn’t go unnoticed, and a way of keeping up moral.
Saying “maybe I don’t care” was one of my mistakes, forgetting to “use tact” while posting. I was mad and if I didn’t care, I would’t have made the post. My attitude toward MP’s in not based on the actions of that ONE individual. My self and my peers have had more than one incident with more than one MP where they seemed to be a bit out of line. I called them assholes, as a collective. I think they’re trained to think they’re better than the general military population. One of my best high school friends has grown up to be an MP, he’s an asshole, but still one of my best friends.
You bring this up again and I’ll tell you again. I know I was wrong for not saying anything. There was an entire building full of people who witnessed this and didn’t say anything.
Soon to be a quote:
If they jumped off of a building, would you?
Probably
I feel like I am forced to constantly repeat myself when replying to you. I did not assume that the SDO was sleeping. I am COMPLETELY AWARE that his duty requires him to stay awake for the entire 24 hours. Another one of those sarcastic (got it right this time people) remarks that you have such a difficult time picking up on.
How can you automatically assume that every section (from command all the way down to squad) reacts to situations in exactly the same way? The one person in charge just has to be having a bad day and, though it may not be legal, chose to over-punish a soldier or disregard a complaint. Forgive the vagueness of those examples.
Appropriate reply posted directly above.
A pointless post. Everyone in the army is basically a soldier. Not everyone knows the nomenclature of every MOS in the military, therefore, I was simply clarifying what I did for those people.
My apologize for calling you a burnout. At the time it seemed like a good way to come back at someone who abruptly called me a cry baby.
As I said before, I’m not a “bad soldier.” I have already told you that I have done nothing but excel above my peers (most of them anyway) from BCT until now. Well, maybe I did a little complaining along the way as well.
I urge you to stop losing sleep at night worrying about another “bad NCO” being inducted into the core. I’ll be out of the army in a year and a half to pursue my ambition to be a full time student.
I doubt that assertion. A watch for health and safety populated entirely by those who’re being punished? I think anyone can see the possible bad fallout of that.
You obviously did not understand.
No, YOU are saying that. I base that assertion on your remark about the MP’s age. I will also redirect your attention to your comment about ALL Military Police.
It is a way of keeping up morale and it is a way of rewarding a good Soldier. But since you have stereotyped ALL Military Police, you are purposely ignoring your own knowledge of this.
You also forgot to use fact while posting.
So how do you drive when someone gets you mad on the road? Do you disregard the evidence in front of you and do what you feel like? I’ll also point out that only YOU can make YOU angry - it’s a chosen reaction.
You are still missing the point that this still does not constitute all Military Police and thus your condemnation of an entire group is prejudice.
Do you have direct knowledge of this from their training or is this merely another WAG? Anyway, what about your feelings towards the general military population and yourself? Seems to me like you think you’re just a tad better than the general military population of your unit. But I might be wrong.
Still doesn’t constitute all Military Police. He’s your friend and you see what you evidently consider a serious character and professional fault in a Soldier? Done anything to dissuade him of that or do you not care about your friends either?
Irrelevant as others’ lack of action does not excuse your dereliction of duty.
Again, your speculation is pathetically incorrect.
Someone jumping off a building is endangering himself. My moral and legal obligation, if I were present on the rooftop and within reach, would be to stop that person from doing so - not merely watching him leap to his death or serious harm. Your action, along with those others present in the Barracks is not unlike someone standing by and watching the jumper. You had both the means and the opportunity to carry out your duty and by your own admission, you failed to do so. You also compound that error by taking refuge in the group of those who were derelict. That’s just sad.
You accused the SDO of sleeping and used that false accusation (you now admit it’s false) to justify your dereliction. That’s not hyperbole. It’s a lie.
Then you should’ve made the assumption that he was awake and carried out your obligation.
I’m having no problems with sarcasm. I am having a problem with understanding why you’re minimizing your serious accusations against others when you admit they’re unfounded.
I do not assume that every unit works in an identical manner. I do know for a fact, though, that you have a means of redress using the grievance system. If you feel you were overpunished or one of your complaints was unfairly considered, it is incumbent upon YOU to initiate action under the grievance system.
And yet again, you made a statement contrary to fact. I indicated where you could get the factual information. You assetion was that BCD was reserved for a certain type of offense when it is not.
Not pointless as you evidently understand that you, as part of everyone in the Army, are also a Soldier.
That’s good so far as it goes. But the point still remains that you are not basically a truck driver, you are a Soldier.
So you understand that it was a remark based on your prejudice?
It wasn’t a good way as I did not abruptly call you that. Here’s what I said:
This was immediately after my initial remarks on the grievance system.
Hey, people, especially Soldiers, have a right to complain. But you should recognize that your complaints should not be based on prejudices.
I’m not losing sleep over it. I think the Army’s promotion system, although somewhat flawed IMHO, does its best to prevent that. When that fails, there’s always the grievance system to which I have directed your attention.
- I certainly hope you availed yourself of the MGIB.
- Why not get the most you can out of the Army during your time in? Drop some of your prejudices and become a good NCO in the time left.
Actually, yes. Attendance at a Transition Assistance class is mandatory prior to normal separation from the military.
I spy someone who got an “A” in asshole training.
Y’know, Monty, you seem to have a lot of respect for military traditions, and the by-the-book way of doing things. I respect a guy with principles, I really do.
What baffles the hell out of me is that after 20 years combined Army/Navy you expect every person in the military to behave in a manner that befits the uniform. Let me rephrase that: What baffles the hell out of me is that after 20 years, you don’t expect most military personnel to throw their weight around and act like pompous assholes given the chance. I’m not saying you’re one of these; again, I reiterate that I respect your principles.
However, let me briefly tell the story of my very short (10 months) stint in the Navy.
19 years old, naive as hell, decide to join the Navy.
Take ASVAB, score 97th percentile. Color-blind, so I am only offered: Machinist’s Mate and Hospital Corpsman.
Talked with recruiter about options. Ask if MM does the same thing a machinist does in civilian life (metalworking, toll making, die-cutting)*.
Recruiter says, “Uh, yeah sure.” Recruiter is a BT1 (knew better).
So I sign up for a 6 year hitch, accelerated advancement, on a plan to become E4 after 8 months active (“buttonpusher”, if you will).
Go to basic training (beee-fucking-utiful Great Lakes RTC).
Get insulted right off the bus and told I’m a worthless shit (never tell a person with an IQ of 160 he’s worhtless, it just lacks validity).
In boot camp for 12 weeks (took 4 weeks for our company, a special performance 900 company, to form up).
Get to “A” School after leave, sit aroung the galley for a month before my class froms up.
*First day of school, I see course training and realize I’m going to be a glorified plumber/steamfitter.
Tell my instructor on the first day that I didn’t sign up for this.
Get told “tough shit.”
Tell him my recruiter lied to me.
Get told “and you’re surprised?”
Start thinking about how I’m going to handle 6 years of this shit.
Complain first to my CC. Get laughed at.
Complain to the divisional Cheif. Get laughed at, and told (verbatim) “Uncle Sam owns your ass now, boy.”
Complain all the way up the chain of command, like a good little sailor, to the CXO, who blows me off.
Give up, and for the next few months or so, drink myself silly, hoping to get busted down for underage drinking at least.
Finally, go speak to the chaplain, tell him my story, he sets me up to see a shrink, of all things.
After a month or so seeing the shrink, he deems me to be unfit for military service.
About a week later, my CC calls me into his office, tells me that the orders for my seperation were rescinded.
Find out from his yoeman (who was a drinking buddy) that I am getting out. CC lied so I would be AWOL for my transfer to the Transient Personnel Unit (which, beleive it or not, would have led to my seperation orders being rescinded). I know this because my buddy overheard CC joking about it with his assistant that day.
All the while, I am still going to classes, and in fact have recieved my E-4 promotion after 8 months active.
Get processed out, with an honorable discharge, 10 months GI Bill, VA loan eligibility, and some ugly fucking clothes.
Oh, and by the way, every time I had a run-in with Shore Patrol, they were assholes.
What my experience taught me is that there is none of the fabled military discipline and honor that existed when my dad and uncles were in (late 50’s, early 60’s). It also taught me that the UCMJ doesn’t mean jack shit to most of those in charge, considering that UCMJ codes were broken on several occasions, all the way up the chain of command.
The memories I carry with me from my experience were of the recruiter who could have ruined my life just to make his fucking recruitment quota, of the petty bullshit that my CC put me through just for his entertainment, and of the dictatorial attitude I witnessed from most of those in power.
And before anyone pisses on me for not reading the enlistment agrement better, all I have to say is I trusted my recruiter, a First Class Petty Officer of the United States Navy, to maintain his principles and tell me the truth, and he fucking lied. Whether I should have read the contract before signing it is a moot point.
P.S. Through all this, no one told me that it is acceptable for a trainee to bow out with a General Discharge before hitting their first active assignment. Assholes.
Given the rest of your posting, that certainly doesn’t include you.
I don’t expect every single person to do so. If you read that into my postings then you have a serious problem with comprehending the written word. What I do expect though is for adults to not cry about someone else’s actions when they get caught themselves–especially when the person doing the catching is just doing his job.
In my 20 years experience, the vast majority of military personnel I encountered did not act as you stereotype them.
Then why did you mention this if it’s 100% irrelevant to your so-called point?
Whatever.
Both fields with members at all ranks, to include Warrant and Commissioned Officers.
There’s also the written description of what those ratings encompass. Did you bother to check that? After all, it’s right there for your perusal in the recruiter’s office.
So you didn’t bother to read it yourself?
That’s actually a good program.
Kind of standard for folks enlisting, you realize, to go through Basic Training.
So why did you value that individual’s opinion of you so highly? Did you think it was true or untrue?
I’m quite sure you left out the numerous details assigned to you and the other classmates while waiting for the course to actually begin.
Oh, I see you didn’t read your enlistment contract either.
The proper action is to avail yourself of the grievance system. Also, if you have proof that your recruiter did lie to you, then the proper action is to refer it to the base Legal Office.
See above.
See again the above comments regarding the grievance system.
Also, “Uncle Sam” does not, and can not, own you. The government, on the other hand, can and does expect you to honor your contracted obligations, voluntarily contracted I might add.
That’s not all the way up the Chain of Command. There is still the grievance system and the base Legal Office.
That’s not even close to an intelligent approach to your perceived problem.
Did the Chaplain tell you why? I’m guessing here that it had something to do with your diving into the bottle to get into trouble to get kicked out instead of availing yourself of the grievance system.
Let’s see: you didn’t request an Administrative Board Hearing regarding the proposed ADSEP for being unfit for military service?
Got any proof or just making similar character assassination to Syehoc’s earlier ones?
The yeoman is not the commanding officer nor is he part of the Chain of Command.
Are you familiar with the term “hearsay?”
There’s an old poem which basically describes one parishioner who’s not happy with any of the churches he’s attended. Someone finally asks him if perhaps it’s not the church.
I consider your rendition of what happened to you to be a quite biased and dishonest description of the events.
Or you could have carried out your voluntarily incurred obligations and been one damn good Machinist’s Mate. Who knows, you might even have gone on to be the CHENG of a ship if you got commissioned.
Right. You didn’t see that little box which said “I understand that there are not other promises to me other than what is contained in this agreement?”
Actually, it’s not. You do not know the reasons that individual did what you accuse him of doing. You might be right and then again you might be wrong. Since you didn’t bother to avail yourself of the remedies available, one can only infer that you are probably wrong.
I refer you above to your lack of availing yourself of the remedies available. Also, you would have had to see the base Legal Office at some point in the Separation process.
Was this a class they offered in Basic Training?
I think we have found the problem folks!
You wrote the course, assholio.
I’ll take that as a complement.
Looking over your post, I don’t see that it does, assuming that you’re referring to yourself as the one with the IQ over 160. Which would be about the 99th percentile of the overall population, and certainly smart enough to read an enlistment contract.
None? I take it then that you witnessed the entire Navy while at A school.
Monty:
Actually, I believe that color-blindness would make him ineligible for unrestricted line billets.
Of course you do. I don’t make the rules, but this is one that I happen to agree with. If the building isn’t having any problems with violence or vandalism, it doesn’t need a baby sitter. On the other hand, a building with a maturity problem needs to be monitored. The fact that the CQ is there out of punishment really makes no difference, the mission is still completed.
That’s a very clever rhyme, but what are you talking about? I’ve used “fact” wherever needed.
Focus, Monty. Are you giving me a parental lecture or tanning my ass with words of prior military wisdom?
Has anyone ever told you that you repeat yourself allot?
prejudice: The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions.
Due to the unpleasant experiences that I have had with MP’s so far, I do initially approach them with a not so cordial attitude. If this person treats me with respect, that is exactly what they get from me. As far as I’m concerned, they’re overall reputation is tainted, but it all comes down to the individual person I’m dealing with. I guess by definition, that is a prejudice, but my attitude can easily be changed by someone who proves my initial conviction wrong.
Did I not say “I think?” Anyway, I don’t believe it’s direct. I can’t picture an instructor saying, “At 1300 you’ll receive a block of training on how to be a prick who thinks your shit smells better than everyone else’s.” I can, though, imagine (in bold so that you don’t ask me if I witnessed this first hand, which you’ll probably do anyway) their entire AIT filled with phrases like “it’s up to you” and “you have the final say.”
Pete and Repeat were sitting on a log.
I did not attempt to dissuade my friend of being an asshole. Therefore I don’t care about any of my friends. :rolleyes:
As your ability to pick up on a figurative statement is pathetic. **no one is jumping off a building!** I think I've addressed the rest of this paragraph a couple of times before.
Horse piss. I’ll repeat myself yet again. I did not accuse nor believe that the SDO was sleeping. That was a joke, an attempt at making someone chuckle. Get over it.
Already addressed
It is pointless, as I have always understood that I was a soldier. This is not something that you have suddenly brought to my attention.
one day…I will learn to construct simple sentences.
No, I understand that I felt bad about calling you a burnout, try not to read too much into things.
Actually, that's not the little remark I was referring to. "Syehoc is a fucking cry baby so far, ergo he's a piss poor Soldier." Nah, not at all abrupt. :rolleyes:
- Of course
- Anything’s possible, considering I drop some of my prejudices
Nice of you to minimize the CQ’s duty by equating it with babysitting. Not to mention the implication that all of the Sodliers there are babies. BTW, haven’t you been complaining about being called a baby? Also, I did not call ALL Soldiers crybabies–just you.
Quick quiz for you: Who’s going to be more interested in performing the task: Soldier A who considers it his duty, or Soldier B who’s being punished?
Uh-uh. Sure.
Kind of like the way you focused on the stop sign you ran in view of the MP?
Yes.
Yes. Repetition is also part of reinforcement, which just happens to be another method of educating.
“Allot” means “to distribute” and “a lot” means “much or many.”
Well, here’s the full definition I find at Merriam-Webster’s online dictionary:
[/quote]
prejudice [1] (noun)
[Middle English, from Old French, from Latin praejudicium previous judgment, damage, from prae- + judicium judgment – more at JUDICIAL]
First appeared 13th Century
1 : injury or damage resulting from some judgment or action of another i n disregard of one’s rights; especially : detriment to one’s legal rights or claims
2 a (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion
(2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge
b : an instance of such judgment or opinion
c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics
synonym see PREDILECTION
[/quote]
You will note that definitions 2a(2) and 2c are on point when discussing your particular situation in this particular thread.
So based on the actions of one or a few, you approach every other MP with hostility and you wonder why they have a problem with you? Truly amazing.
And yet, by your own admission immediately above, you do not approach the MP with respect. Truly amazing.
“They’re” is a contraction of “they are” and “their” is the possessive of “they.”
Yes, that is the definition of prejudice.
Maybe if you showed the MP some respect, the MP would return the favor. After all, “what’s good for the MP is good for the driver.” (Yep, repetition/reinforcement in case you didn’t notice.)
It’s kind of bad form to snip the words out of the quote without indicating it.
Yes, you said you think. But since you’re not basing that on any direct knowledge, then it’s naught but opinion. Also, your opinion, as you just admitted, is based on your imagination and not a bit of actual evidence.
This has a point?
So you’re saying it’s okay for your pals to be assholes but it’s not okay for the MP to be an asshole?
Well, evidently you don’t care if the one particular friend is an asshole.
Then your thinking is, yet again, off the mark. You used the figurative statement to make a point & I indicated that it was an invalid point by making the proper comparison with a figurative statement.
Bullshit. You made the statement and are now waffling after being called on it being out and out bullshit.
As were your dereliction and your pathetic excuse (the bit about waking up the SDO).
But evidently it is something suddenly brought to your attention when, as a Soldier, you are expected to act as a Soldier. Not only that, but the MP, being a Soldier, is also expected to act as a Soldier and perform his duty: that duty as described in the OP, whether you like it or not, was to interact with you regarding your disregard of a traffic regulation, to wit: rolling through a posted stop.
I hope so.
The rest of the remarks made in conjuction with the burnout comment prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was based on prejudice.
Not abrupt at all since you were evidently aware of the preceding (that means “before”) remark.
Good!
Actually, that word, in the sense I used it there, can be either “prejudice” as in “sum total of hatred” or “prejudices” as in “all of the individual things you hate.”
In that you make perfect and complete the definition of an asshole, that’s a good idea.
So, today, we’ve learned that one of the two is true:
- absoul doesn’t spell well.
- absoul isn’t as s-m-r-t as he thinks he is.
Personally, I think #1 complements #2. And, I’m done with my compliments.
Manservant Hecubus-
Well you obviously understood its meaning and may have even guessed it was a play on words.
Bravo!
Now go take your medication before you burst that pulsating vein in your neck.