Shodan, if, in your opinion, this board leaned to the right, would you complain just as much about the bias?
I’m still waiting for the first war dec inspired by a message board grudge.
Also, one can have a primary and a secondary (and even a tertiary and quaternary) drive behind posting.
You bought that? I have prime ocean front property in Kansas that I would like to sell you… 
Sure we’re supposed to be about fighting ignorance.
But we’re also individual people who are, to one degree or another, given to personal failings included but not limited to bias, pig-headedness, etc…
Sure. But by the same token, that’s life.
Of course. LeKatt must be bulletproof by now. 
Nor is it necessary to invoke a ‘hive mind’ or ‘flavor-aid drinkers’, or what have you. We’ve seen, time and again, that certain posters have the ability to unite most of the board in disliking/opposing them. There’ve been more than a few Pit thread recently when someone has remarked something like “Wow, Poster X, you may be a real idiot but you’ve gotten Der Trihs and Kanikbird to argue the same position!” or what have you. It’s much more helpful to look at matters in terms of shifting patterns of ideology and various ad hoc ‘coalitions’ than any sort of hive mind.
I want to endorse a point Lib raises and make another one of my own. I find the trolling charge very troubling, and it is bandied about on the SDMB particularly freely. Trolling is infinitely subjective, and while I certainly think it exists, I think the best response is to ignore it, not to trump it up into some sort of bannable offense. At any rate, despite having the audacity to disagree with FinnAgain’s worldview, mswas plainly was no troll. And “trolling,” properly considered, is a raison d’etre for an account (a la “the Grapist”), it is not, as many on this board so often take it to be, merely disagreeing with a dominant POV.
Indeed, I dare say that I’d like a rule against preferring this charge, rather like the ban on “cunt.” I’ll also note that certain posters, FinnAgain very much included in their number, like to throw this accusation about, so much so that with such a rule, we might see FinnAgain’s posts decrease by one-half.
The point I want to add is to address the person who asked how many second chances posters will get. I say let’s give them an infinite supply of second chances. Nobody doubts that mswas comes to the board in good faith (I should say “Nobody serious doubts…”, certain silly and self-important posters do so doubt, but their silliness and self-importance allows us to dispense with consulting their opinion). This is an internet message board, not a matter of life and death. We can afford to be nipped by the mswases of the world, and in our zeal for punishment (itself an ugly enough characteristic) we would be giving up needlessly an important addition to the SDMB.
I would probably complain about as much as you do now about left-wing bias. Of course, I am not a mod, so I am not in any position to do anything about bias besides report it, and I have already been told that at least one of the mods discounts what I have to say. So I have less influence even than the average Doper.
But of course, this is a hypothetical, since the mods are never biased against non-liberal opinion-holders in their moderation. Right?
Regards,
Shodan
[quote=“Shodan, post:32, topic:508141”]
mswas [ul][li]failed to toe the line 100% on gay marriage and on Kennedy, and showed he could be baited.[/ul][/li][/QUOTE]
My bolding - mswas said he was perfectly in favour of gay marriage, he just liked arguing the side of those who weren’t, from a devil’s Advocate stance.
Whether or not that was trollish is up for debate. I’m OK with DA arguments as long as they’re stated up front. Can’t recall if his was.
As for the baiting - if he didn’t go around making stuff up in GD and the like, he wouldn’t give so much bait fodder, ISTM. It certainly looks like suicide by mod to me.
Avoiding the question. You complain heavily about left-wing bias constantly. Is it the bias that offends you, or the direction of the bias?
What you suppose I would or would not do doesn’t matter, since I don’t have a record of complaining about bias either way.
[quote=“Shodan, post:32, topic:508141”]
mswas [list][li]failed to toe the line 100% on gay marriage and on Kennedy[/li][/QUOTE]
Many other posters said uncomplimentary things about Ted Kennedy this week, and none were suspended except mswas. The only poster who said uncomplimentary things about Kennedy and got suspended was the same poster who called someone else an asshole in MPSIMS, and who has been warned (often for insulting people) six times since April. Do the math.
You made me snort out loud.
Awwww, Kimmy, if you wanted some attention from me all you had to do was ask. Saying such silly things to get negative attention isn’t really healthy though.
See, this is why it pays to have a clue (or ideally, two clues to rub together so you can keep warm) before you make claims. Amazing concept, I know.
See, despite your absolutely devastating fusillade, the fact that you’re wrong, ignorant, and reduced to making shit up about what I’ve said kinda cuts your legs out from under you.
Of course, I never claimed that mswas was, in general, a troll. I correctly stated that he was previously banned for a month due to trolling. I said this rather clearly, and provided a link. You can read it yourself to see that, yep, that was in fact the reason that was given. But I can understand how you might be a bit confused and would use your lack of understanding as a basis to get your hackles up. Well, not so much ‘understand how’ as ‘am no longer surprised that’.
I also pointed out that mswas himself admitted that his purpose at the time in praising the Nazis was to piss people off. Surprisingly enough that doesn’t have anything to do with disagreeing with my viewpoints. Yet again, I am distinctly not-shocked by your inability to understand that, either.
The typical FinnAgain mode of argumentation: flail about, coming up with a thousand ponderous ways to call someone dumb and then culminate in a great missing of the point.
You cited the trolling charge approvingly and your final paragraph makes it clear that you think he was a troll. Erroneously, you think you can cleverly elude being pinned to this by not saying the word “troll” but by making the same claim nevertheless by circumlocution.
Mswas praised the Nazis in a typical devil’s advocate fashion. His goal was to put people to their paces, which, in Western Civilization, is typically considered a very noble pursuit. Socrates, of course, happily saw himself as the “gadfly of Athens.” Or as this board would call him “a troll.” Now, I’m certainly not saying that mwas is a Socrates, but we could scarcely do better for a Meletus than what we have in FinnAgain.
I know the boards too and I don’t believe that for a moment. mswas broke the rules, simple as that. I do wonder whether a suspension was necessary in light of the interesting self-analytical thread in which he promised to reform his posting habits, but I guess the mods have to go by actions rather than promises, and he did break the rules again in that thread.
Having said that, he can be annoying as hell but there’s something about the guy I like. I hope he works things out and avoids a permanent ban when he returns.
Check the links provided in the other thread here in ATMB. He said he’d change his behavior and then engaged in the same behavior later in the thread.
And Kimmy? As I’d hope you might grok, your inability to understand what I’m saying does not mean that I’m flailing about any more than my cat’s inability to understand poker means that there’s no coherent set of rules to the game.
Yet again, he admitted that he was trolling in that instance. He later went on to clarify by saying that he was attempting to piss as many people off as he could, in order to be banned.This shouldn’t be at all controversial, as he’s clearly said in his own words before that he’s engaged in trolling other places before.
See what I mean about getting a clue before you post from a position of ignorance?
You don’t really feel a need to figure out wtf you’re talking about before you just launch into a rousing game of Makebelieve, eh? It’s interesting that ignorance really doesn’t slow you down, at all.
Let’s see the “devil’s advocate” that he was playing, like wise old Socrates.
[
](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7063345&postcount=63)
And the reason why he did it?
[
](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10895576&postcount=212)
And I know I’ve already pointed out a lot of your ignorance today, but I’ll help you out some more. After all, while you’re making allusions to material that you don’t seem to grok you could at least use, ya know, actual phrases. The phrase is “put them through their paces”. You cannot “put someone to their paces”, because that makes no fucking sense.
Nor does it mean whatever you seem to think it means, as mswas, in his self-admitted quest to piss of as many people as possible in order to get banned, was not in fact trying to test the skill and ability of the teeming millions. Nor is putting something through their paces a “noble” action. If you give someone a swimming test, very few people who understood the English language would describe that as noble.
See you later when you make your next attempt at a devastating gotchaya!
Ciao for now.
This is pretty much it. mswas has a track record of saying one thing and doing another, then getting all manner of pissed off when people focus on the latter and not the former.
Shodan, I am sure you dont know me fron Adam, as 95% of my posts have been about things like beer, the music of Van Morrison, my love for all things New Orleans, and overpriced frozen pizza—That said, I have read your posts for years, and though I dont agree with some/many of your political observations, I really think that if we met up in real life sometime we would get along well, as I often enjoy your humor and do agree with a fair amount of your social values…
I am a (39 year old) political independant, who is socially liberal on most issues, somewhat conservative on others.
I have also avoided any personal fueds and drama that crops up on the board from time to time, as it seems pointless to engage in name-calling with strangers. I have also never posted in the Pit…
That said, I (who usually votes Democratic in national elections) freely posted my thoughts on Kennedy, saying I felt that he acted (before during and after Chappaquiddick) like an arrogant, entitled asshole for most of his life, and while I can acknowledge that he certainly did some good work in his Senate career, he probably wouldnt stop (or have his driver stop) to piss on any of us peons if we were on fire----He was a shameless self promoter, who made sure that any positive action he took was going to be on the 5 oclock news, so that us mere mortals could give him the reverance he was due.
Despite my unflattering comments, no one took me to task for my views or told me I was unworthy of my liberal card. I stated my opinion, in a non-combative manner and was left alone without venom from anyone, of any political persuasion, who disagrees with my perspective.
The hive mind works on people of all political outlooks, and while some liberals are swift to crush dissent among the ranks, conservatives are certainly not immune from groupthink.
In short, sometimes its not the message, its the messanger, and the manner in which the message is delivered.
Anyway, I look forward to your posts, and while I dont always agree with you, I can usually respect you opinion and the way that you express it.
Matthew
Speaking just for myself, I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt after he posted the apology thread. However, since he once again broke the rules in the very same thread, and there didn’t seem to be much change in his behavior in general, I agreed suspension was the only way to really get his attention.
Regarding the issue of politics, I personally neither know nor care what mswas’s politics are. I don’t participate in GD much; in other threads I have seen him say things in accord with both conservative and liberal positions. His suspension was based on the fact that he had multiple warnings over a rather short period of time. Actually, he’s being treated rather leniently considering the fact he has had a previous suspension.
IMO, mswas clearly needs a time out. He’s been spending much of his time here recently just getting involved in fights with other people. Hopefully a break will give him a chance to cool off for a bit.
You misunderstood the claim. There is indeed a left-leaning bias to the board, which few would deny. And as I said — why did you ignore this? — conservatives can and do post, but it is conservative ISSUES that ties the membership up into knots and presses all those buttons. Issues like Mary Jo Kopechne. Issues like second amendment rights. Issues like limited government interference in people’s economic affairs. THESE are the things that push the buttons. But I submit that it is not the fault of any particular poster that readers have buttons all over themselves from head to toe. THAT is the problem.
mswas wasn’t suspended for espousing unpopular views or pushing anyone’s buttons. He repeatedly and willfully violated the rules. To try to make him into some sort of conservative martyr is kind of nutty. There are several posters, some in this very thread, who have long histories of deliberately antagonizing other posters but have managed to stay more or less within the rules of the board.
I was surprised he only got a one-month suspension, and I can’t help but wonder if he isn’t somewhat disappointed. His recent actions were those of someone anxious for martyrdom. (Of course its hyperbole to compare loss of posting privileges on a message board to death and torture, but it seems to fit with the tone of some posts here.)
And this board is rather uneven in the application of rules, and it always will. Some people will get stomped into the mud when others commit more eggregious rulesbreaking and nothing happens to them, or they get only a light censure.
No big deal, favoritism is human nature.
It just pisses them off when it gets pointed out. I expect to get a pm nastygram in the next few minutes, if not an outright time out in the virtual corner.
Not that the above was directed at me, but since I’ve weighed in foregoing posts, I want to reiterate that I do not think mswas was suspended for the content of his views. I do think a week or two might be a more appropriate duration than one month, and like so many others, I think a lot of the behavior was perhaps driven by IRL tensions he might have been experiencing–what we saw in the last week was like mswas’s usual quirks on speed. (I hasten to add I have no special knowledge about this, just speculation on the basis of over thirty years of dealing with other people.)
I did want to emphasize that I think there is a very misguided notion of “trolling” that has some currency on this board and that could be quite pernicious if it is taken seriously enough to influence moderators’ decisions. And also to parry some of the regrettable enthusiasm for dropping the banhammer that other posters on this board seem to have.
Yes and some would claim trolling is not subjective, we could do this all day. What you consider to be trolling is not going to apply to everyone else, do you really disagree with me on this?