Ireland, yes, used to be. Not hundreds, but some dozens.
Bosnia? I’m not following. Do you mean Christian Serbs behaving badly? Sure, they were, but generally under the aegis of government.
In 1988, when he joined out of high school? Maybe he did think that. More likely, since he joined despite purported objections from his parents, he didn’t really care about the possibility of fighting Muslims.
But either way, I think that point of view overlooks the fact that people change over time. Some news outlets are reporting that he became more religious after his parents died (1998 and 2001). Then there was September 11th, followed by two wars, greater strain on the military, and probably greater antipathy in the services toward Muslims. That’s not intended to excuse his behavior, and Muslims have never been a popular group in the US, but I’d be surprised if it hadn’t become worse in recent years. He’s been in the military half his life and some people don’t cope with well the way the world changes. Many people become more religious as they age. He was single and supposedly could not find a wife who was a strict enough Muslim for his tastes. And until the last couple of years I doubt he ever considered the possibility that he could end up overseas, although obviously he would not have been in combat anyhow. And he heard scary shit from guys he dealt with who were coming back from fighting in those two wars. He’s not necessarily the same guy who joined the service decades ago and we’ve already seen evidence he’d tried pretty hard to get out of the army in the last few years.
Diogenes the Cynic, I don’t think you can call “Allahu Akbar” or “Praise Jesus” a prayer. I think they’re both what people like to call pious ejaculations. The shootings don’t turn into a religious act just because of what he yelled, but there are other indications that his religion was one factor in what happened. On the other hand this looks more like personal revenge and not an act of terrorism. I think that’s going to be slicing it too finely for the general public, and regardless this is going to bring more heat on Muslims, which sucks.
By the way, there was a reported homicide between soldiers at another military base today.
For what it’s worth, there were several instances where it can be argued the US was intervening on behalf of Muslims. Some (Bosnia, Kosovo) easier to argue than others (Iraq).
This I can agree with somewhat.
But then in the 90s (Kuwait, Bosnia, Kosovo, Africa embassies, Cole) he took several steps to stay in the Army and even become an Officer. The difference between him and an enlisted grunt is he can resign his commission.
This is true. But just because he is a Muslim doesn’t make this a terrorist act, even if he is shouting “Ulluhooo Ahkberr” the whole time. There’s a difference between slaughter and terrorism. Terrorism has a specific sort of motive to it, and with the Islamic extremist terrorism we have become familiar with post-9/11, in its variations, there are some common traits, none of which we have any reason to believe exist with this guy. So far it looks like one lone nut who went crazy.
A lot of all this reminds me of a similar event not that long ago.
I agree to an extent. I was just objecting to rhetoric from some (especially Diogenes)that went way too far the other way. We can discuss this action without making assertions about Islamic or Christian motivated terrorism that aren’t borne out by plain observation.
Let’s face it, a phenomenon in terrorist activity in recent decades has been “lone wolf” terrorists like John Allen Muhammad, Theodore Kaczynski and Eric Rudolph. So we can’t just dismiss this as a lone nut right off. This might well have had a purpose even though unattainable or unrealistic - and that places it closer to terrorism on the spectrum than an insane outburst.
I agree. I’m filing this guy as a mass murderer, not a terrorist. Depending what turns up on him, maybe I’ll change my mind. He seems to have made plans for his killing spree. But why no Youtube testimonial warning the infidels of further jihad? Terrorism might involve mass murder, but the reaction it elicits from the population is a key part of it. To that end, the media will do their best to whip people into a terrorist fear craze. So even though Hasan is a mass murderer, there’s always room for terrorism!
Yeah, i someone were to go on a rampage shouting Christian slogans, they could be a deluded mass murderer, or a Christian terrorist. (Or both)
According to 20/20 the Army wouldn’t release him because they paid for his medical education. He did, in fact, try to leave.
Well, he didn’t try hard enough then. Because if he was so against being deployed to Afghanistan or Iraq I;m pretty sure he could have been relieved somehow or resigned. Shit, he could have just gotten a DUI or a bar fight or something to have his clearance revoked if he was feeling that desperate. It might not be a great thing to do, but its better than killing 13 people.
I don’t agree with a lot of things the government and by extension the army does. Admittedly I’m in a unique position. I’ve got enough time in that I can, if I choose to, retire. But even if I submitted the paperwork this week it’d be at least 9 months before I was really out. Still, if I felt strongly enough about a cause to get out, I’d just tell my superiors “I can’t do this because of this that or the other thing.” Yeah, they wouldn’t make it pretty but Hasan took the punks way out.
Its not like he didn’t KNOW the army paid for his education. If he didn’t want to fulfill his end of the dealhe should have just said so and took the consequences. He was a freaking Major! He knew what his obligations were to the military.
It looks more and more like he did this becase of a religious thing from what I’ve seen on CNN, though I still think he might have also had a mental problem. I’m actually hoping it was a mental problem, because I don’t want to see this become an islamic thing.
I don’t care what you worship. If you’re a wiccan or you pray to a head of cabbage. I only get concerned when your religion dictates that you harm innocent people. (having not read the koran, I am not saying that islam does this…but the vocal minority of islam are pretty vocal about it) I don’t think that muslims are inherently evil. But incidents like this ain’t helping. There are too many people out there that would love to blame an entire religion for the acts of a few. I just saw a news story about some whackos in NYC preaching about how Hasan is a hero for killing those soldiers and how the love Osama Bin Ladin. And they’re US citizens!
The only thing they’re doing is fanning flames of hate. Not just on the people that may share their view, but on the people that don’t and will now be fearful enough to attack anyone that seems to share their beliefs.
Major Hasan may have been nuts or just angry, but whatever he was he’s made life harder for a lot of people. Because he (IMHO) thought he had a free ride through the military.
According to this AP story he got his medical degree in 2001. Various officer programs have different service obligations, but I believe the longest is only 6 years, so he could have gotten out in 2007. However, being something like a headshrinker is a very in-demand job and the military can choose to keep you if they need to (similar to the popular “Stop Loss”), but that does not necessarily appear to be the case. In any rate, I agree with Jolly Roger he had time to get out.
You could be right but it doesn’t make sense that he would go on a suicide murder spree when he could just walk away to a lucrative civilian career.
The picture that is forming is of someone who decided to do this in advance. He gave all his furniture and Quran away and then on the day of the shooting shows up to morning prayers in religious clothing instead of his normal uniform. He planned a Jihad against his fellow soldiers.
Either that or he just went batfuck. You don’t know.
Persnally, I think it takes more than one nutcase to make a “jihad.”
For what it’s worth: Kevin Drum gets an email from a someone who claims a firsthand account (disagrees with MSM on whether shootout ended inside or outside). He claims Hassan was shooting people he didn’t know (just who happened to be there), and was not shouting “Allah Ackbar” but was actually silent.
It doesn’t make sense that a couple of kids would shoot up their high school when they were one month away from graduating, but it still happened. People are batshit crazy sometimes.
Over what period of time? He had twenty years in before this happened, but it is unlikely he was planning this for twenty years. It sounds like he snapped. Not in one hot instant, certainly, something worked him quick.
I would say that it was a period of days/weeks if he had time to get rid of his furniture and Quran. His Imam and the store clerk didn’t see any odd behavior that day (unless you consider his dress at the Mosque) so it appears that he made peace with his decision. This often occurs with suicidal people.
Considering the recent arrest of people suspected of planning an attack on a military base I think it would be prudent to prove he didn’t have outside influence. Bat-shit crazy gives everybody closure.
I think we’ll have to call that a shooting spree ‘suicide’, not a shooting spree ‘murder’. And it supports my point that firearm attacks in Japan are usually targeted at specific people - in this case over a loanshark issue.
Dude, unless things have changed drastically very recently you don’t even qualify for Airborne school. Last I heard you had to be under 36, pass an Airborne physical and be able to pass a PT test using the 17-21 year old standards. Doesn’t seem like you qualify at all. No way to pressure you into going somewhere they won’t let you go to anyway.
Most army bases used to be open. Anyone could drive right on. That was the case with Fort Hood when I was stationed there many years ago. After 911 all became closed bases. It was more economical to use some combination of security personnel and federal law enforcement as well as MPs. Remember that MPs have a wartime mission that they have to train for as well as their community policing duties while on post. Some posts that I have been on have DoD Police only. Some have DoD Police and MPs. Some have private armed security to man checkpoints and MPs for policing. I’m not sure what combination Fort Hood has right now.
Doesn’t strike me as odd at all. Close your eyes and try to image how confusing the scene was. The police at the scene were more concerned with securing the scene and helping the victims. The media is more than willing to go to air with rumor and speculation. I’m surprised that reports weren’t even worse.
I’m still in the Guard but when I was on active duty it wasn’t like that. If you lived in the barracks you had to store your weapons in the arms room. If you lived in family housing or off post you could keep your weapons at home, depending on local laws. As an officer the shooter was not living in the barracks.
Of course it would be common to have a weapon there. Before my last deployment I had to carry my weapon around Ft Bliss for 2 months. But we were confined to an out of the way range complex. We would leave them behind when we went to the main PX. But no ammo. I didn’t get ammo until I got to Kuwait.
I knew the “Allahu Akbar” thing sounded like bullshit. I called it first.
Spain’s newspaper of record, El Pais, is reporting that the authorship of the following internet posting has been confirmed as coming from the perpetrator, NidalHasan.
Draw your own conclusions.
The Army used to conduct periodic Helath & Welfare Inspections of the barracks, what amounted to a no-notice/no-knock room-to-room, locker-by-locker search for prohibited items such as alcohol, drugs, knives (outside legal restrictions), and firearms.
Do they still do this? It was one of the (very many reasons) I left the Army. On our H&W’s our unit would use the personnel who lived in quarters or off-post to search the rooms/lockers of the guys in barracks. I had a married PFC (living in quarters) searching my locker when I was a sergeant living in the barracks.
Basically, the barracks were built like/felt like a prison, and we were treated like scum/criminals.
That propaganda would fly better if suicide bombers focused their efforts on more military targets instead of civilians, shopping centers, restaurants, bus stops, etc., etc.
This attack was on a military target.
Sorry I wasn’t more clear; I was responding specifically to this:
If El pais’ reporting is accurate, Maj. Hasan was saying suicide bomber’s intentions are to target the military; they rarely do.
That he did is a distinction of some sort, I suppose.