http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100117/ts_nm/us_usa_court_deathpenalty
Any thoughts or opinions on this case? Personally, I think it is ridiculous that it has been almost 30 years since this crime and conviction and the Faulkner family has yet to see justice.
The criminal justice system is meant to preserve civic order - the justice lies between criminals and the state. It cannot provide “justice” for victims or survivors, and does not try. Victims and survivors have no place in such a discussion.
If they did have a place in it, in what way have they been denied justice? MAJ has been in prison for nearly thirty years – is it not justice if he ain’t dead?
While those who are already convinced may feel frustrated over the delay, it’s hardly “ridiculous,” given the general debate over the death penalty, questions about the validity of the prosecution in this case, and accusations regarding the impartiality of the judge.
“Though the mills of God grind slowly, yet they grind exceeding small.” Human justice, on the other hand, is more like an elephant – lumbering along, it usually takes the path of least resistance, sometimes destroying property or crushing the unwary; occasionally, though it goes berserk, and slays innocents and miscreants alike.
Well, I was going to write something more extensive on this subject, but Nametag pretty much got it in one.
In my experience, most people on both sides of the issue know very little about the case other than fragments of what they may have read, and very clearly apply their own prejudices to what little they do know about it. I don’t trust such persons’ judgement on Mumia’s guilt or innocence, and therefore leave it to the system to work this out.
The system allows for detailed examination, appeal and review of verdicts in death-penalty cases, and I consider that a good thing. If the OP doesn’t like it, he’s going to have to come up with some sort of rational argument (other than ‘I beleive this guy did it and I’m outraged that the state has taken so long to kill him for it’) as to why changes should be made if he wants to enlist my support.
It’s entirely possible that Abu-Jamal is both guilty, and the victim of a racist trial that would have convicted him regardless. In fact, that is what the bulk of the evidence suggests. All of this will come to nothing more than a retrial at which he is again convicted.
I have met people who believe that Mumia is innocent, and they tend to be the same people who believe that cops deserve to be shot. In other words, just like the neo-Nazis who insist that Hitler never murdered six million Jews but also think that the idea of murdering Jews is awesome.
I’ve never met anyone who “believe[s] that cops deserve to be shot.” And I’ve been around quite a bit, including having met people who would like to see cops shot. But not think they deserve it. I have met people who believe Mumia is innocent. I personally do not know if he is guilty, but from what I’ve heard, there isn’t enough to make me doubt the jury’s verdict.
How come your post isn’t just “poisoning the well”? A drive by swipe at people who disagree with you on the subject of the death penalty and the subject of whether the convicted man is entitled to exhaust his appeals?
Yeah, I have met some too. And actually, to be fair, I’ve met a lot of people who really have been treated quite poorly by the cops and I think that’s where their tendency to believe Mumia comes from. But I read his book,* Live From Death Row* and it was some years ago, now, but IIRC, the part about what actually happened/what he was doing at the time was pretty dang murky. If he were really innocent, he would have a perfectly clear explanation for exactly what he was doing during the time in question. It’s when you’re guilty that you want things to be a little muddy.
I’m frustrated by a seemingly ending appeals case. At least this article explains (though vaguely) what happens with the decision. While it’s burdensome to the courts and expensive, I’d rather have the state continue to fund to put him to death rather than have him gain life imprisonment.
Good luck trying to find unbiased information online though.
There is no doubt, and by that I mean zero, that he killed the cop. It was witnessed by a number of people who were at the scene. He never left the scene because he was wounded. Whether or not he deserves the death penalty is a function of the laws governing the crime.
Morality = what the state says it is? :dubious:
The latter is flat-out false, though it is asserted endlessly. This is so tiresome. I have lived in or near Philadelphia my entire life, and I am very familiar with the case, through newspaper accounts and having read more than one book on it. The tired lies that keep getting recirculated about the racist vendetta against this asshole are unbelievable. They are invariably indicative of someone with an ax to grind or who hasn’t taken the trouble to actually familiarize himself with the facts of the case.
Or, to put it differently, cite that the bulk of the evidence suggests a racist trial?
His guilt or innocence won’t be an issue; SCOTUS already rejected an appeal to hive him a new trial on guilt-innocence. The best he can hope for is a new sentencing hearing in which he recieves life without parole.
Here, for anyone interested. In anticipation of the inevitable “but that’s a biased cite” retorts, I’ll ask that you notice that the actual transcripts are likewise available through that cite. Read up, familiarize yourself with the facts, then decide.
I would point out that while danielfaulkner.com is biased they are much less hysterical and much more open about their sources than most pro-Mumia sites. For example they have the transcripts and give direct quotes, etc.
While I have not personally encountered the ‘Mumia didn’t kill a cop but the cop deserved to die’, but there are lots of them in the Free Mumia ranks. Ramona Africa, for example, alternately says Mumia didn’t do and followed by a slandering Officer Faulkner by calling him, among other things, a pimp for underage prostitutes - the implication being that while Mumia didn’t do it but the guy had it coming’. I think of the song from the musical ‘Chicago’
I have encountered Free Mumia types who don’t even know there was a dead cop in the equation. They were told Mumia was a ‘political prisoner’ and that is all they know.
I’ve seen that accusations of racism, and for me they just don’t hold water - unreliable quotes alleged to be from judges or their record of being tough and in control of their courtroom doesn’t make for racism.
A detail a lot of folks ignore is that Mumia screwed up his defense beyond the pale. He had a lot of resources, but the all evidence pointed to him. He tried to make a mockery of the courtroom process but was kept in check. His antics turned an already loser case into a doomed effort.
I am of the opinion that there is a strong possibility that Mumia’s killing of Faulkner was not a spontaneous act but rather something he set up to kill a cop (not Faulkner specifically). I don’t have proof of this, and I admit it, but it does linger in my mind for various reasons.
I hesitate to contribute additional speculation, because the naysayers tend to use that as evidence that the facts don’t say what they do, but there are some pundits I’ve heard who wouldn’t be surprised by this either. It answers the question, “What are the odds that a cab driver would come upon the scene of his brother’s arrest, in a city the size of Philadelphia, early in the morning, exactly at the moment it was occurring?” Again, what is beyond reasonable dispute is evil enough, though, whether it was planned well in advance or not.
Well, that part I can see in some respect: Mumia and his brother were both cabbies working in an area where cab work would be somewhat lucrative, i.e. the Red Light district.
Where I raise an eyebrow is how Cook made a turn to go the wrong way down frigging Locust St?! And that happens to be done right in front of Mumia’s cab?
That gets my usually grounded mind to say 'this may not have been unplanned (although if this was the case I suspect Mumia didn’t tell his brother exactly what he had planned).
I see your point.
I wasn’t really commenting on the morality of it but rather the nature of his guilt. He’s tried to plead not guilty when there was no doubt that he committed the crime. It is truly the rare case of absolute proof in a death penalty case. His only real defense would have been insanity. If he hadn’t acted as his own lawyer it would have at least some argument against conviction.
I think Mumia himself is just a symbolic figure for a greater concept. It’s not really his innocence or his guilt that matters - it’s the whole idea of “fighting the power” and “offing the pig” and “sticking it to the man.” If Mumia is freed, The Man gets put in his place (in the eyes of his supporters.) It’s a victory for all of the people who hate authority in all of its manifestations.
It is my conclusion that a judge declaring “I’m gonna help them fry the nigger” during the course of a black man’s trial is not in keeping with the ideas of due process of law, equal protection, and blind justice.
The only debate is what that makes you if you disagree. This is before we start bickering about the witnesses who recanted and all of that.
It is also my conclusion that Mumia Abu-Jamal is guilty of murder, should be punished for that crime in accordance with the laws of Pennsylvania, and would still have been convicted even if his trial was fair, due to his guilt and the evidence of such.
The fact that almost no one else can conceive of the idea that both sides are wrong, and immediately assumes that their own political allegiances dictate the facts of a case, is a troubling sign about the propensity of Americans, and political animals in general, to derive an “is” from an “ought.”