I’m wondering, what is the TRUTH about this whole thing with Mumia Abu-Jamal. I have NO interest in propaganda. Just tell me the facts and let me decide for myself.
For the facts, ask the master:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/950721.html
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/950811.html
Check out http://www.danielfaulkner.com to see the point of view that he was guilty and deserves the death penalty and check out the plethora of free mumia sites out there for the other side. As far as for what is fact and what is propoganda, you will have to make that judgment for yourself.
Here’s a Great Debates thread that discussed the subject. The thread includes links to an Amnesty International report discussing the case.
Mumia Abu Jamal may very well be the guiltiest man on death row in America today.
Even a casual look at the multitude of Mumia sites will reveal a basic truth…the anti-Mumia sites (like the Daniel Faulkner site) are based on court transcripts and forensic evidence. The pro-Mumia sites (and they are numerous) are based on tossing political slogans and loose fabrications of the evidence.
Multiple witnesses and confessions…the fact that the murder weapon was right next to him…the fact that Mumia was basically a dirtbag who associated with the most radical and violent elements imaginable and who was unable to find work as anything except a cabbie on the midnight shift because of his erratic and combative behavor…it all adds up to guilt way, way beyond a reasonable doubt.
One question I have never seen any Mumia fan even attempt to answer: If Mumia was in fact innocent, the real killer would have had to have been a companion of his brother and/or Mumia. Why haven’t they ever revealed the idenity of the real killer?
All this crap about how poor Mumia didn’t get a fair trial is indeed just crap. Mumia did not even attempt to mount a real defense, not that he was capable of doing so with the evidence. It was his intention to put the system on trial,and to create such a circus that a mistrial and/or reversal was certain. It might have worked with Ito and the Simpson jurors, but it didn’t fly in Philly. It did work with his legions of fans who love to proclaim that this dreadlocked pukepot is a political prisoner.
I am oppossed to the death penalty, but I despise Mumia. He believes he is qualified to pass judgement on American society, but he is incapable of understanding even the most basic concepts of civilized, moral society, like not shooting a fellow human being in the back and then firing shots into their face until they die. Let him rot in prison, in solitary confinement with all of his media contacts cut off. When he dies, listen very closely, and that sound you hear will be Mumia giggling his ass off all the way to hell at how well he made a fool of all of those well meaning but foolish white college kids and celebrity supporters.
"yeah, but you know, he like, has a cool name, and like has cool hair, so he’s gotta be innocent.
now let’s go get some starbucks and protest the WTO."
Well, Oblong, that may very well be the best argument for his defense that I’ve ever heard.
Did you get your name from the Steven Van Zandt character in The Sopranos? That’s a cool name.
That Daniel Faulkner site is an interesting piece of fiction. I haven’t made up my mind yet, but that is just blatant propoganda.
Um, actually, it’s extremely well documented. You may call it a “piece of fiction” but I don’t see what backs up that claim. What would you expect to see on an unbiased site that is different from the Daniel Faulkner site?
Why is it any more propaganda than http://www.mumia.org? Or http://www.freemumia.org? This guy has rock stars and actors and famous people worldwide taking up the cause, not just for a new trial, but to free him, for heaven’s sake. So Mumia gets Paul Newman and the Beastie Boys, and Daniel Faulkner gets one lousy website, and that’s “blatant propaganda”? And if you haven’t made up your mind, why would you refer to is as “fiction”?
I’m opposed to the death penalty, so I don’t want to see Mumia executed anyway. I think there’s a very strong likelihood, almost a certainty, that he or his brother shot Faulkner. And what really, really irks me is that, beyond the fact that Mumia is in jail, a guy got killed here. Nevermind that he was a cop–someone shot him in the torso, then stood over him and shot him in the head. In cold blood. Leaving behind a family. And neither Mumia nor anyone else in the “Free Mumia” camp seems terribly concerned about it.
Sheesh :rolleyes:
The celebrity thing is what irks me. I remember when Ed Asner and the guy from MASH were on 60 minutes. They basically admitted that they were only in that fight because they were against he death penalty. Now being against the death penalty and claiming someone’s innocence are 2 entirely different things. Want to debate the death penalty? Fine, then debate it. But don’t make claims on someone’s innocence and spit on someone’s grave because of it. Asner and Farrell(?) didn’t know anything about the case.
I believe mumia’s supporters are just drawn to him because of what I said before, his hair, name, and because they think it’s cool that Rage Against The Machine are backing him. These people don’t know how to think for themselves.
His politics and writings should not be in the argument either.
For now, my source of reference is what Cecil posted. The fact that it isn’t even mentioned that Mumia was shot is a pretty big omission. That makes it pretty obvious that they’re not to be trusted. I’m not saying that all those Free Mumia sites are either, I’m just saying that that particular site isn’t.
Furthermore, some of you seem to be saying that simply becuase he was a radical automatically shows his guilt. I guess along those lines, Thomas Paine MUST be the one who fired the “shot heard 'round the world.” After all, he was a radical extremist whom was unsucessful business wise. He also, coincedentally, had a very controvesial, but widley read publication. I’m not saying that Mumia Abu-Jamal is Thomas Paine re-incarnate. I’m just trying to show that you’re not using sound logic as a reason why he must be guilty.
Some people are protesting against Mumia being in jail.
Some people are protesting RATM, the Beasties, et al, for doing the above.
Fine, it’s their right.
What am I doing? Protesting that this is still in GQ.
Or pretty obvious that you need to learn to read, since at http://www.danielfaulkner.com/index2.html , under the “Summary of the Case Facts” link, we read:
“Faulkner was able to remove his revolver, turn and fire one shot at his attacker. The bullet found its mark in Mumia Abu Jamal¹s chest.”
“At the trial, prosecution ballistics expert Dr. Charles Tumosa testified that the positive result of the test that was run on Jamal’s jacket, meant that the person who shot Mr. Jamal in the chest (Officer Faulkner) had to have been no more than 24 inches away from him when they fired.”
Under the “Myth #12” link, we read:
“After shooting, Mr. Jamal, who had been shot in the chest by Officer Faulkner, was seen by several witnesses, including defense witnesses, to move away from Officer Faulkner’s body and collapse on the curb.”
So there are at least three instances that not only explicitly state that Mumia was shot but that Faulkner shot him. Looks like you aren’t too concerned with actually examining the evidence after all.
manny, can we get this puppy over to IMHO or GD?
Yeah. I had high hopes that it would remain here. Reflecting, I have no idea whatsoever how I got that thought in my head.
I mean, if the trial transcripts (available on the Faulkner site) are insufficiently factual, well, I don’t know what to say.
Off to Great Debates.
Look at the “chronology” section. They make it out such as Mumia just materialized and fired for no reason, then just kind of stood there.
Bear in mind, I never asked for your opinions. I asked for the FACTS.
Allow me to amend that last statement. I asked for the facts as obtained from a legitimate source. I don’t want to read people re-spewing what they found on some propaganda site (either for or against.)
I discussed this extensively in the thread to which I linked above.
For an impartial source, you can read the full Amnesty International Report that describes the many problems with the trial and evidence in the case of Mumia Abu-Jamal. Please note that Amnesty International is not asking for his release, but for
[list=A][li]a new trial[/li][li]no death penalty[/list][/li]for those of you unfamiliar with the work of Amnesty International, let me add a few more details.
[list=A][li]Amnesty International opposes the death penalty, so it would ask for a reprieve from the death sentence regardless of the crime or the certainty of guilt;[/li][li]Amnesty International has written a report on the case of Mumia Abu-Jamal because it takes an interest in prisoner cases “which have a political aspect”, which in Mr. Jamal’s case would be the fact that in the death penalty phase of the trial Mr. Jamal’s membership in the Black Panthers and political statements made as a teenager were used to justify the death penalty.[/list][/li]pldennison said:
That seems likely to me also, from what I’ve seen of the evidence. But then, if Mumia Abu-Jamal’s brother is guilty, Mumia Abu-Jamal should not be on death row.