Music question about keys

Cafe Society
1

This is regarding something weird I have noticed.

In reading sheet music, I have occasionally come across a song such as this: the song is in, say, the key of G (I believe the key of G contains F# as the only sharp or flat?). So, the staff indicates that an F# is to be played rather than an F. So far, so good.

Yet, in some songs, there is no F note to be played at all. You needn’t bother worrying about playing F# instead of a straight F, because it never comes up.

So, why put a # on the staff for the F note? Couldn’t this tune be considered to be written/played in the key of C, where there are no sharps or flats?

I suppose the answer lies in the fact that each key has a harmonic center, or ‘base’?
So…let me know, OK? :slight_smile:
mmm

2

This must be the right answer, although I would like to see a piece such as you’ve described, with no F or F# at all.

The more complete explanation of why it’s not in C has to do with the chords that are relative to the key of G that aren’t to the key of C. About all that would be obviously missing in the no-F# and no-F situation would be the Major 7th and all the variations on the Dominant and Minor 7ths based on G.

Having a melody by itself would be hard to distinguish from a C melody, until the ending when the G piece would normally head toward a G Major ending (with alterations depending on the mood) while a C piece would tend to resolve to C Major (with the same flexibility in the actual final chord).

That’s all my theory can provide, and I’m sure others have better explanations. But can you provide the name of a piece like what you describe?

3

I don’t have a specific example right now; I just see it in the church hymnal from time to time.
mmm

4

In a church hymnal that could indeed happen - in those cases it’s still very easy to determine that the song is in G major. E minor has the same accidentals, but would center more around E and B rather than G and D. A song in G without an F# accidental would be very weird (or in an old mode, mixolydian, which I won’t go into right now).

5

In the key of C, the following chords contain F: Dm7 (F is the b3), FMaj7 (F is the root), G7 (F is the b7), Bm7b5 [B half-diminished] (F is the b5).

In the key of G, the following chords contain F#: D7 (F# is the 3), F#m7b5 [F# half-diminished] (F# is the root) GMaj7 (F# is the 7), Bm7 (F# is the 5).

6

Even if the melody doesn’t have an F-sharp, it may occur in the accompaniment. In any case, it indicates the tonal center for 18th Century harmony, which is the basis for most everything today.

7

Actually, it is very common in the blues to play the the I chord as a I7 (rather than the diatonic IMaj7). So in a key of G, you would play a G7 which has a natural F. This would not be in the mixolydian mode because the IV7 and V7 are also played with dominant sevenths. In G mixolydian, the IV would be CMaj7 and the V would be Dm7.

8

Yes one sharp is the key signature for G major, and also for its “relative minor” key of E minor.

9

Maybe I used the wrong word (not a native speaker, sorry) - what I meant was a song in G without an F# after the clef - of course you can have songs that don’t actually use that note. A look in Wikipedia seems to say that accidental is the wrong word to use here.

10

One practice that really annoys me is when a piece is modal (in, say, Mixolydian), but the key signature stubbornly insists that the piece is in major. So a piece in D–Mixolydian is notated with two sharps, and then every single C has a natural. Drives me batty.

11

I see what you’re saying. Yes, a song in G without an F# in the key signature wouldn’t be…um, in G :slight_smile:

12

Do you mean D Dorian? If so, that would be notated in a key of C Major (no accidentals). No need for naturals in front of the C’s.
Or did you mean E Dorian, which would be notated in a key of D Major (two sharps)?

13

There are sharped and flatted notes available in the key of C; they are individually marked on the sheet music, and called incidentals. Consider a passage which resolves by climbing by half-steps from A to C: A, B-flat, B-natural, C. (A biut odd-sounding, but not out of the realm of possibility.) The second note is written as a B but with a flat sign alongside it.

In other keys than C (major and A minor, to be technical), the key signature at the beginning of the staff identifies which notes are to be always sharped or flatted. In music with a E-minor signature, for example, every time you see an F written, it is to be played as a F-sharp. If the actual note F-natural is called for, it will be flagged with a ‘natural’ sign – if the # sign can be described as a Cubist depiction of an octopus, the natural sign has only two arms, pointing up and down from opposite corners. The arrangement of the Londonderry Air I’ve seen, for example, is written in what I think is C-minor, and has five flats, with only C and F “on the white keys.” Only where a sharp or flat not present in the key signature is called for is an incidental used.

As for why one has keys in the first place, there are two reasons, one intensely practical and one aesthetic. First, while keyboards and a few other instruments can play a very broad range, most singing voices and many instruments have a limited range. Transpose a song for a woman singer written in C to the key of G, and only a trained operatic soprano (or a contralto, if set down an octave) will be able to reach the extreme notes. Placing it in an appropriate key keeps it within most singers’ range.

Second, there is an aesthetic sense that various key signatures carry particular emotional baggage with them. The key of E, for example, seems to be often used for bombastic or joyful pieces, full of enthusiasm, while E-flat carries more a sense of hope amid gloom. This point can easily be overdone, but there does seem to be some validity to it, in the sense that “often music in this key will carry this emotional atmosphere.”

14

You caught me mid edit. I meant Mixolydian, not Dorian at all.

15

Mr. Mustard, if your hymnals are like mine (and I just came from Mass, singing in the church choir), then a lot of the hymns are pentatonic, so there would be no scale degree 4 or 7 (C and F# in G major). However, unless you have the choir edition, you don’t see all four voices, and so the F# is almost definitely in the harmony.

16

Accidental.

C Minor has three flats. It’s relative major is Eb.

Five flats is Db major or Bb minor.

17

Wouldn’t D Mixolydian be notated in G Major? One sharp…C’s still natural.

18

This is my point.

I don’t know whether it’s the composer, the editor, or the publisher, but it seems that some people can’t get over the idea that the piece is in “D”, so they give it a key signature of two sharps, as in D-major. They then meticulously put a natural on every single C. Giant waste of ink.

19

Yeah, that’s screwy - The C natural is what makes it mixolydian.

20

In your example of D mixolydian, I would prefer it written with two sharps and accidentals because then I’m expecting a ii-v-I to involve e - a - D, even if the a is minor rather than major. If it were written with only one sharp, I would be expecting cadences to resolve to G Major, when they won’t - G Major is a IV chord in D Mixolydian.

I can handle whichever choice someone makes when notating it, but if you’re asking my preference, I’d rather it looked like Major or minor with accidentals.