In 45+ years of playing out, I thought I’d seen just about everything. That was until I spotted this ad in an idle moment looking over the Craigslist Musicians section:
I know it’s possible this is just a joke, but it seems an awful lot of trouble to go to.
So have you guys ever seen anything like this?
I’m not familiar with the music business. But my assumption would be that any musician good enough to be able to justify those conditions shouldn’t need to be taking out classified ads for jobs.
What a clueless douchebag.
So, so far from reality. There’s a story there, but I am sure I don’t want to hear it.
Yeah, someone thinks he’s a lot better than he actually is. If he were actually that good, he should go somewhere were he can do studio work. After a while of that, he could make the contacts he needs to put together the kind of band he wants to have.
Most likely, this is just a scam. This guy is probably just looking to make some money by having young, gullible musicians “audition” for him at $25 bucks a pop.
I can’t imagine myself at the most naive stage of my career ever being that gullible. And hell, there are few if any places for young musicians to play anyway in this area, so what would be the point?
I’m half-tempted to respond to this ad and string this guy along a little bit (see the previous thread about messing with Craigslist advertisers), just to give him some comeuppance. Maybe set up a practice, promising him full payment on his terms, but then give him the address of an abandoned house or something.
Of course, I won’t do this, but if anyone would deserve it…
…it would be somebody that would do something like that.
You can’t screw around with random assholes without becoming a worse asshole.
Wow, I’d be inclined to think of it as a hoax if I didn’t remember the guitarist who auditioned (I guess that’s what it was) with us recently. Before we had played a song together, he was already trying to nix ideas, and decided to try give me an unbidden guitar lesson on technique that was totally incorrect. I’m far from a god, but I play bass and guitar just fine, thanks. I think he misunderstood who was auditioning who. We didn’t invite him back.
I’ve also seen bass players on message boards display this kind of prima donna attitude, even if I’ve never seen anyone claim to charge for practice. I assume they’re compensating for something, but I don’t know what it’s supposed to compensate for. Charging for practice is the only thing that makes me think it’s a joke, but I still think I could be wrong.
Maybe they just haven’t accepted being a bass player yet. Unless you’re a songwriter, the bass player usually just isn’t that important in a band. You’re rare, but just about any bass player can play 90% of most sets, and most guitarists could pick up the basics in an afternoon or two. Guitarists who are willing to switch to bass in order to be in a band are never in short supply.
Don’t get me wrong, I was a bass player before I was a guitarist, and I’ve happily played both in bands; But we’re bass players. The only musician with less ego than a successful bass player is Buddha holding a set of maracas.
It’s either a joke or someone who’s lost touch with reality. I bet it’s someone making fun of someone they met or auditioned who acted a bit like that.
I can’t believe that anyone who’s ever been in a good band could think this.
Yes, and sound like shite, getting nowhere near the pocket.
This could be true, but the most egotistical musician I ever played with, the only one where ego was an issue, was a bassist. I’ll admit it’s unusual that I’ve been playing in bands for 4 decades and only once was ego a big issue. I’ve definitely played with people with big egos, it just wasn’t an issue for me.
Yes, I admit, I might be right.
I swear I’ve been in a few good bands, sometimes as the bass player, and I do think this way. I’m not saying the bass player is unimportant, but it’s behind having a good drummer, guitarist and singer (if you have vocals, and this is rock). My current band was going to go forward with the bass player they had before me. He played the riffs so badly I can’t stand to listen to the recordings they made with him. But, it was his attitude that made them come looking for me, not his playing. Some of the other members actually questioned me when I played the correct bass parts for songs we were covering. The old guy was holding down the bottom, but didn’t devote himself to learning the actual parts. He’d made a living without doing it for other people’s touring bands, so why should he do it for a gig he wasn’t already getting paid for?
If your guitarist can’t find the groove, I’m probably gonna go outside and smoke pot during your set.
I won’t argue this at all, see the notes on the guy I replaced. Even I have a bit of an ego (which would be a severe understatement). I’m also not the most successful bass player (again, a severe understatement). But despite my faults, a “pro” bass player (his sole source of income) was jettisoned from the band to be replaced by my particular brand of difficult personality, partly due to his fixation on making a dollar quickly. He didn’t love the music, and it was glaring.
But this is all a distraction from a bass player with an ego far larger than mine. I’ll happily play shows for free.
Gullible or not, I can’t imagine any struggling musician being able to afford paying $25 per audition.
Says you!
Yeah, for me, the two most important instrumentalists were the drummer and the bassist. If you’ve got a good pocket, you’re free to do whatever you want on top of it. It’s amazing how much a good rhythm section will tighten up a band’s sound. I’ve played with very good guitarists, good singers, and I’m a reasonable keyboardist, but if the bass & drums aren’t tight and on top of things, it all sounds like shit to me. OK, maybe not like shit, but the bands I most enjoyed playing in were the ones with rock solid drums & bass. Were I starting a band, those would be my most important building blocks.
:dubious:
Now where did I say that you could get by with a bad bass player? I’m saying something different: almost any musician can become an adequate bass player.
People that already play an instrument in time with everyone else can usually switch to bass guitar easily. It’s particularly common to find guitarists doing just fine on bass duty (e.g., Noel Redding). If you’re a bass player, and I am, this is not news to you. I am honestly surprised that anyone has issue with this idea.
Which is why I think the ad in the OP is probably a hoax. If not, it’s terribly sad.
Sorry for derailing the thread, Dchord568!
I’d let this guy audition for me, but I don’t think he’d be willing.
See, I charge my band members a straight $500 to teach them all my songs plus my re-arranged covers, and I charge each member $30 per practice, to cover the cost of the building, the utilities, the air conditioner, the fridge, the jacuzzi with the 3 stripper “hosts”, etc.
You get your own ass to gigs and you bring your own gear, unless it’s at the practice space in which case we all load the gear and ride together (no extra fee).
Oh, and my time is valuable, so I charge people a flat $100 to audition for me.
I don’t charge a fee to play with the band for shows, tho, and if you actually become a member of the band there are formulas to determine how much I pay you depending on time with the band, songwriting credits, wingman expertise, quality of drugs, etc.
Nowhere. I’m not sure what that’s in response to.
But the guy isn’t looking for a struggling band. The band must already have gigs booked in non-dump clubs.
Yeah, and since he expects at least $150 a night, that means that even if it’s a minimal three-piece configuration, the band would have to get $450 from the club owner (unless other members are so enthralled at playing with him that they’re willing to take a smaller cut).
Good luck with that around here!
I’m still somewhat fascinated by this whole thing. He says “Thank you mates” at the end…not something an American would say. This leads me to believe he’s British (or Australian?).
Maybe the music scene is different in those countries. However, a high school friend of mine lived in London for several years and was in various bands, and my memory is that he made next-to-nothing. This might have even been in the “pay to play” era.
Again, it’s just a fantasy, but I keep thinking of the scenario where we agree to all of his terms, then set up a “practice” at an abandoned house. We could hide somewhere nearby and actually video the whole thing as he walks up and finds that nobody’s home.
It would be worth it just to get a glimpse of someone who carries around that kind of ego.
…assuming he’s for real at all.
Well, your indirect response to my opinion seems to be describing a bad bass player to me. I think I described my position poorly. Replaceable would be a more accurate word than unimportant, it’s simply through the fact the instrument is easy to play.
It’s like checkers. I’d say that the number of people that cannot learn to play checkers at all is vanishingly small, and most people could learn to do it adequately well. All the same, we are not created equal. I never met anyone in the league of my grandfather and great aunt. They were monsters of that game, and to play them was a breathtakingly short game for most people.
By comparison, playing the keys or drums is n-dimensional chess to me. I’m truly sucktacular at both, but can make children believe I know what I’m doing as long as I don’t play for more than ten minutes. If I ever “win” at either instrument, it’s not reliable, and it’s not through skill.
So yeah, to me he’s basically charging $25 for the musical equivalent of a pick-up game of checkers, and wants 6X that for a tournament, plus travel expenses.
OTOH, I’m only half of a rhythm section right now myself. I understand your value of a good one, and having been backed by a good rhythm section, I agree it’s a joy to play with. Even though I’m not sure we’re the awesomeness that the drummer thinks we are*: I’m not willing to break this one up, and we’re both picky. If we make a band as good as the one we are trying to replace for ourselves, and I don’t get shunted back to guitar for reasons I still can’t explain - I’ll come back here and eat crow in the deepest, most eloquent way I can manage, and be grateful for the experience.
And he never even describes what makes a “dump”. Where to draw the line? In descending order: No food/drinks in the dressing room? No dressing room? Not even one that’s barely large enough to hold your equipment? No drink tickets or comped drinks for the band? No bar at all? No stage lights? Hope you brought a P.A., because we don’t have one? You work the door yourself when you aren’t playing, or no one gets paid? Heroin addict club owner shooting at customers in the parking lot (a muddy field)?
I’ve worked in all the situations above. Personally I draw the line at bringing a P.A. to a club. If they have a P.A., and I get paid anything over what I spent at the bar, I’d probably call the night a success. I’ve gotten paid $150 per member very rarely, and it always went to recording costs when the band was good enough to get paid that.
*Seriously, if you’re going to be a successful bass player, you have to be a little humble (and this craigslist guy ain’t, if he’s real). It’s almost guaranteed that one song will have you riding the root, and not much else. It takes some humility to know that you’re sometimes a tone oriented, adaptable click track and still try to do it well. I’ve never personally known an egoist bass player that didn’t either suck or have extensive mental issues. The best “bass player’s bass players” I’ve known were pleasant to a literal fault. I used to be one’s roommate, and the poor man paid for it in strange ways he never anticipated. I don’t think he was scarred too much, though - he’s still my dear friend!
Well, no. Apologies if I was unclear. I was saying how I like good bass players (not merely adequate ones.) I, too, can play a bit of bass and hold my own if need be. I’ve played with many an adequate bass player and there’s a world of difference between an adequate one and a good/great one, so much so that it affects my playing and the general feeling of tightness of the band as a whole. Then again, I zero in on drums and bass more than most people. (For example, my love of Zeppelin is mostly due to Bonham and Jones, not Page and Plant.) Now, not all bands I love have great bassists or even great drummers, but as a musician, for me that’s always been the fundamental building block, and when it comes to playing with a band, nothing makes me happier than playing with a solid drummer and solid bassist that lock in with each other. It inspires me and makes me play better.
ETA: But hijack aside, it’s not like I cruise Craigslist musician ads or classified ads for musicians in general, but I’ve never ever heard of such a thing as described in the OP, and that person would never get a call from me (were I ever in charge of forming a band), if this ad is indeed legit. It reeks of somebody trying to sound more established and professional than they really are.
I don’t mind at all that a more general discussion about bass playing has invaded this thread.
My take is this: much depends on the style of music you’re playing. If you’re doing complex music (e.g. Rush, God help you), then I suppose a bass player who can do more than just basic rhythm section moves might be an asset.
However, I’m a song-oriented guy who plays simpler music, and is more interested in how the music as a whole comes across, and less interested in individual players standing out. Part of being “good” on your instrument is knowing what and when NOT to play. The goal for every single instrument (as well as vocalist) in the band should be to contribute to the whole, and complement it with his/her playing and singing.
My bet is that this particular bass player who thinks he’s so “good” probably overplays and sticks out in the overall mix. To me, the phrase “in the pocket” is key. As a bass player, you should always be there, rock-solid and moving the piece along, without getting in its way.
There’s a reason why Paul McCartney is one of rock’s great bassists. It’s not just that he came up with melodic and inventive bass lines at a time when the bass rarely took on that role (e.g. “All My Loving,” “Rain,” “With a Little Help From My Friends”). It’s also because he knew parts such as these — while they worked wonderfully for the songs in question — would have been overkill for many other songs, and that a more, er, “bass-ic” approach was called for in them.
My definition of a “good” player on any instrument is one who plays with taste…who’s flashy only when the song genuinely calls for it, and a team player the rest of the time.
We do not disagree on any of that. “In the pocket” is the key. I’ve played with plenty of bass players who played the right notes, and weren’t obnoxiously wrong with their timing, but just weren’t “in the pocket.” To me, it’s accenting and really confidently hitting the notes that establish the groove. It has nothing to do with flash, as Paul McCartney is one of my favorites, as well.