Which one of the two would you want backing you up?
I am not speaking of showmanship because GK had it all over BR in that department (IMHO), but pure musical ability. In my younger days, I played drums in a rock group or two and I used Gene’s method. IMHO, he just enjoyed himself behind that trap set, ya know? And even though I wasn’t very good (not a rudimentary drummer), so did I. But I have often wondered: would I have been better musically if I hadn’t spent so much time smiling?
So who’s the better drummer, Gene or Buddy?
Note: I have all the videos and Gene still has it all over Buddy!
Hey, **Quasi! ** Whaddaya call a guy who hangs around with musicians?
A drummer! HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Okay, to address the OP…gee…neither one.
But that’s because I’m a card-carrying beret-wearing finger-popping shades-after-dark be-bop hep cat. When I’m layin’ down riffs and flatting my fifths and feeling all reet, I need my man Kenny Clarke behind me. Or maybe Roy Haynes.
Maybe I’m listening to the wrong records, but Gene Krupa’s drumming has never excited me to jitterbug madness. I always figured he achieved status as the first pop-music Drum God because of his noticable good looks, not for his BUM chicka BUM chicka BUM chicka style.
Rich was a pretty amazing drummer, but was even more famous for being a prick…a guy you wouldn’t want to turn your back on, which would make it a little difficult to concentrate on my playing. I’d be worried that he would throw something at the back of my head in the middle of my solo.
If I had to play with a swing-era drummer, I’d probably go for Dave Tough, who the big drum stars all deferred to as the Master…
…yes GK was a good looking man and BR was an a-hole, and even Gene cited Davey Tough as being his influence. All those I will grant you, (even the lousy drummer joke!:D). But as far as musicianship, I still believe that Gene had it all over Buddy (which is a moot point, since you refuse to acknowledge either one) simply because Gene used his rudiments. The man loved his instruments, and he looked good while playing them. But more importantly, he understood the drums, and I have never seen a happier man than Mr. Gene Krupa behind his Slingerlands. This all is, of course, IMHO, Ike!
Well, Buddy was an unquestioned virtuoso…he started out as a child prodigy and just got better and better. Technically, I’d prolly have to take him over Gene.
My experiences of Krupa-drumming recordings include lots of Benny Goodman, plus the 1940-era Gene Krupa Orchestra (with Roy Eldridge and Anita O’Day.) Is there anything you recommend I should listen to to make myself more awed by him?
…and if it’s just going to be the two of us in here, bring a six-pack, okay? I’ll get the chips.
I vote for Buddy Rich… which brings up an old story that San Francisco concert promoter Bill Graham liked to tell.
Back in the 60s, Graham regularly scheduled big, day-long, multi-band rock festivals. Graham loved rock and roll, but HATED long, boring drum solos- and San Francisco was FILLED with untalented acid rock drummers who loved doing pointless 30 minute solos. So, Graham came up with a great idea for shortening or eliminating bad drum solos.
He’d book Buddy Rich to play a short set at the very START of the festival. In a 20 or 30 minute set, Buddy Rich would do virtually EVERYTHING a man can do with a set of drums, and leave to great applause. Meanwhile, Graham would be backstage telling the rest of the bands on the bill, “If anybody here was planning to do a drum solo, you’d BETTER be able to top that.” Sure enough, there’d be no drum solos for the rest of the day.
Ike! Who called him that? You? Yes, I know that Buddy started off as a little boy, but come on, he just copied the rudiments, he never lived them, the way that Gene did!
No, Ike, there isn’t anything I would recommned you listen to to make you “more awed” by Gene Krupa, but I would like you to consider this: If you were playing a solo, and needed just brushes behind you, take a listen and a look at GK. He would have given you what you needed, and looks be damned!
Benny G. made a big mistake when he fired Gene.
All of this, I reiterate, is in IMHO. Because you know what? Ukulele Ike is one of my favorites on this MB!
…you’re losing me with the “He copied the rudiments he didn’t live the rudiments” argument. Can you clarify this statement for a non-drummer, 'cause I have no idea what you’re getting at.
I used to live one floor down from a drummer, the son of a famous jazz writer, here in Brooklyn. One of the best buddies I ever had for shooting the shit about music.
He would say something like “…you remember that session, don’t you?” and I’d say “Sure…Junior Collins on tenor; Blue Mitchell on trumpet; Sonny Stitt on alto; Horace Silver on piano; George Duvivier on bass…and…uh…somebody on the drums.”
Gotta be Krupa for me. Krupa was ground breaking and truly innovative. Do you remember “Drum Boogie”? You talked about elemental. Yeah, that was it.
This is going to sound weird, but I always got the feeling that Buddy Rich, as good as he was, was trying to be Gene Krupa.
Love them both though.
And Quasi, Goodman couldn’t have kept Krupa if he had wanted to. Krupa was in a completely different place by that time. I was always amazed they stayed together as long as they did. Two totally different personalities. But they did some nice stuff musically.
I’ve probably heard Krupa, (via recordings), but he was never identified to me. However, my grandma used to let me stay up late and watch Carson, back when Buddy was on every few months. I was in grade school or junior high at the time and I played drums in the school band. Buddy Rich just amazed me. He would be center stage, playing with the Tonight Show orchestra, showing off and looking like he was having a really great time and working hard, too. Undeniably a smart-ass jerk, but I loved how he played.
I remember the only time that he didn’t have anything to say - he was finishing one of those minutes-long solos and his ending stroke was on a cymbal that he hadn’t used yet. He really mashed the thing and it exploded into thousands of tiny pieces that bounced off drumheads and sparkled in the studio lights. The only thing left on the cymbal stand was a little jagged ring of brass-colored whatever. Buddy sat there with his mouth open for a second then busted out laughing. Carson and much of the band was on the floor. I seem to remember laughing so hard I woke up my mom in another part of the house. That put the brakes on Carson for a while.
IIRC, there are 26 basic essential rudiments and they include the single stroke roll, the double stroke roll, the paradiddle (LRLL, RLRR) flamadiddle and others. They are a training tool which the drummer can work into his performance and he begins them slowly and works up to speed and accuracy. As I said, before I am not a rudimentary drummer, but my brother who played with The Spirit of Atlanta Drum and Bugle corps is and to hear him play his rudiments is a joy to behold. A musician who has a rudimentary drummer as a backing player is secure in the knowledge that this musician has been well trained.
As to who developed the basic rudiments for drummers, I am not sure, but I believe it was John Phillip Sousa. (Check me on this one, fellow dopers).
Buddy was flashy, but he didn’t practice rudimentary drumming. Gene was flashy too, but he did practice the rudiments, and that is the difference between the two.
Anyway, drumming is not just “beating the skins” in rhythm to the music. There is a method. Hope that clarified it for ya’, ya hep cat!
I like Buddy, but I’m biased. When I told my parents I wanted to play drums, they gave me a bunch of Buddy Rich records and said, “This is the guy you want to sound like.” I played those records until they wore out. I’m not much on the rudiments, either. Since I already had a pretty good time sense when I started playing, I mostly taught myself. I got a book on the rudiments and began to practice it more than two years after I first started playing.
