Muslim Dopers: Some Questions About The Hajj

I grew up in a Muslim country (~40-55 years ago) and to this day most of my friends are Muslims (in Pakistan and several other countries). Several of them are Hajis, it is considered quite an honor. All of them are 1% ers in terms of global income, and several are 1% ers even by North American and Western European standards.

I know several people who have done Umrah. Some of them in addition to Hajj. Umrah is a visit to the Holy Places outside the time

I don’t know anyone who has performed Hajj more than once.

I have never inquired as to whether anyone’s Hajj was via an “authorized permit” or not. I do know that the effort was reported to be quite strenuous even for these very affluent people. Most of the pilgrimages were made between 1999 and 2010 when the prescribed dates were in the winter (or late autumn or spring, November to March).

At least when I lived in Pakistan, I would guess 90%+ of the population didn’t even dream of being able to afford hajj. Poor people did manage it, but literally hundreds of people in their clan or extended family helped to finance it. Sometimes with formal or informal loans. Yes, you could get a Hajj loan from a bank.

It’s certainly more than 1300 without the proper pass who made the difficult and repeated walks that are required. But if it was just 1300 with the wrong pass that’s 23 extra busses needed to keep them alive. It would be much easier to manage than ambulances and trucks to the morgue.

How could you forget Aldebaran? Also banned.

I believe I joined in April 2004 and @Aldebaran last posted on December 31 of that same year, so we didn’t overlap much.

Until I saw this, I was assuming this was about Elizabeth Taylor’s two-time husband.

I do know that the Saudi authorities are very diligent about ensuring that pilgrims are immunized against a number of diseases, the main ones being polio, measles, influenza, and a form of epidemic meningitis that is rampant in the desert areas of West Africa. I have also heard that in many cases, sending a village representative can suffice for a group of Muslims who may not be able, for whatever reason, to travel.

Here’s a link for American Muslims.

https://www.saudiembassy.net/hajj-and-umrah-health-requirements

While Burton was, on one hand, travelling with a genuine false passport, he did not trick anyone or take advantage of lax “security procedures”. You might say he was not a “real” Muslim, but he knew vastly more about Islam than the random pilgrim or even some theologians. He assumed ihram, recited the talbiyah prayers and performed all the rites, etc. He did not sneak into Mecca wearing a Hawaiian shirt and shorts and take selfies in front of al-Masjid al-Haram.

I disagree. While Burton may have had a lot of knowledge about Islam, as far as I know, he never claimed that he had converted and become a Muslim. He was somebody who was not a Muslim pretending to be a Muslim. Which to me, means he was tricking people.

Indeed if Burton knew that much about Islam and Muslims, he must have known that what he was doing was very offensive.

Non-Muslim here with perhaps some dumb questions…

At what age are you expected to make this trip? Can you be too young? AIUI it is expected of “adults” whatever that means.

Do Sunni and Shia Muslims put aside their differences while visiting Mecca? Is there any abrasion between the two?

It sounds like everyone goes as an individual. Do couples go together, or families with adult children? Or even just a group of friends?

How are indivdual women traveling to the Haj treated and/or accomodated? Are they separated from men?

Are residents of Saudi Arabia, or of Mecca, afforded any perks, like a “fast pass” lane around some of the crowding?

Uber-rich and world leaders/diplomats/celebrities and athletes, and important people who may be well known - do they just mix-in with everyone? If they have a security detail, all of them must be Muslim, too, right?

Thx

“Muslim” is a vast category, and my limited knowledge indicates that many members of sections of that group would be greatly offended.

But Islam is a religion of orthopraxy (correct conduct) rather than orthodoxy (correct belief)

Does that tunnel cover the entire distance? I tried googling “mecca hill tunnel hajj” (without quotes), and the best I could find was:

The Hajj pilgrimage route leads from Al-Masjid Al-Haram, the world’s largest mosque (also called the Grand Mosque) to Mount Arafat approximately 20 km to the east…

I pulled that up on Google Maps with the satellite view (street view there just isn’t a thing), and it looks like most of the distance between these two sites is covered by what appear to be massive pedestrian walkways. Click here for a close-in view of the middle of the route, showing three pedestrian walkways with a total width of around 250 feet; follow the route east to reach Mount Arafat, or west to get to the grand mosque. There appears to be a tunnel through a mountain for the westernmost ~3 km of the route, but it sure looks like most of it is open-air.

Is the hill-to-hill walk you’re referring to something else?

I’m confused. You appear to be questioning @Schnitte 's use of the word “tunnel”, except that he doesn’t use that word. He says that it’s an enclosed walkway, which seems to be the same thing you’re describing.

I am not Muslim, but know a little about it.

I’ve never heard of children performing the Hajj. I’d guess you have to be at least 20 years old.

Shia and Sunni perform the Hajj together. There has been conflict in the past however, including violence that resulted in hundreds of deaths:

1987 Mecca incident - Wikipedia

I’ve known couples that went together, and an older woman who went with her sister. A lot of people go alone too.

It’s difficult to tell from the satellite view, but those reddish pedestrian routes look to me like they’re open-air, not enclosed. There appear to be parts of it that have umbrella coverage, but not air conditioning.

Found a video showing some footage from the road:

You can see swamp coolers spraying mist at the edges and median of the road, but that’s an awfully wide road.

The enclosed walkway I mentioned is between the hills of Safa and Marwa (Wikipedia, which is a distance of about a quarter of a mile, which pilgrims must walk back and forth seven times. That’s only one of many rites that make up the overall Hajj, which includes further places that are no part of that same route.

Cool, thanks for clarifying.

I was visiting a family in Egypt, they had pictures of their children with them in Mecca, about 10 years old or so. Don’t know if was official Hajj time, or not.

I’m not a theologian (Muslim or otherwise), but I don’t think there’s an age restriction on performing the Hajj. The obligation to make the pilgrimage is subject to provisos (that you’re in sufficiently good health and of sufficient financial means), and any religious obligation under Muslim religious law applies only from puberty onwards. So children are not under a duty to perform the Hajj. But I don’t see a reason what a Hajj performed during childhood should not count as meeting the obligation of doing it once in a lifetime, as long as the rituals were conducted properly.

Or if a pregnant woman, whether she knew it or not, went there, would the baby be qualified as having done it?

I think y’all are talking about the Phillip Jose Farmer Riverworld stories.