Say I wanted to go visit Mecca and Medina, would this be possible for a non-Muslim? How would they know If I’m a Muslim or not? Do I have to take a Koran pop quiz before I enter the Holy Mosque? Would it be wise to wear clothing that would blend me in with the locals, or could I stroll on in sporting a Knicks jersey? My arm is tattooed from shoulder to wrist, is that even allowed in Islam? Would that make me stand out? Lastly how dangerous is this to pull off? This is a serious question.
I suspect this is a dangerous thing, these days. Read Richard Burton’s classic book A Personal Narrative of a Pilgrimage to Mecca and al-Madinah for information 150 years out of date. Watch Spike Lee’s X for more up-to-date imagery. I’m sure there’s a lot on the internet about current practice.
Saudi Arabia is an incredibly difficult country to visit. My understanding is that the only visas given out are (1) visas to Muslims as part of the haj to Mecca, (2) work-related visas, (3) “transit” visas (i.e., you have a layover at the airport for a day or two), and (4) a VERY narrow set of government-approved tour groups which are generally outrageously expensive.
I’m currently waiting to hear if I’ll be approved on a work visa (my firm maintains an office in Riyadh). For that visa, I need the sponsorship of a Saudi company (our client, who is deciding which associate they want from a pool of candidates – hence my waiting: they’re taking their sweet time. Grrr).
I believe, though I do not know for certain, that a Muslim on haj would have to have the sponsorship of his mosque – essentially, paperwork declaring he is, in fact a Muslim.
I do know that the roads to both Mecca and Medina are guarded at several checkpoints. You certainly couldn’t just waltz in. And given Saudi penalties for other crimes, I’d expect the penalty to be severe – after all, you would be the infidel treading on holy ground, at least in the government’s eyes.
Be careful—look what happened when Rebecca Came Back from Mecca!
If this is a serious question, I would seriously suggest you not attempt this. Under Saudi law, it is illegal for non-Muslims to enter the cities of Mecca and Medina, and, if you are caught, you will be subject to criminal proceedings.
This is illegal under Saudi law. Given that other threads asking about how to break the law are normally closed I would expect that this one would be also. SDMB/Chicago Reader do not advocate criminal activity and all that.
I also would not be the least bit surprised if the penalty for breaking this law is death (usually by decapitation).
http://travel.state.gov/saudi.html
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/theme/religion/rel_mecca.htm
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/destinations/middle_east/saudi_arabia/attractions.htm
http://answering-islam.org/Index/H/hajj.html
BTW, if you’re interested, Cecil speaks on the subject of Burton.
Oh, and a couple of things on blending in. Hajjim are readily evident by there dress: loose fitting white cotton robes and sandals, as I recall. They almost always have facial hair and are male. Females can but are not required to go on a hajj and would wear extremely conservative dress, in addition to being escorted by male family members.
You’d be expected to be able to recite passages from the holy Quran in classical Arabic.
Net, don’t lose your head on this one.
Don’t do it unless you are a drooling idiot. In which case, you deserve what you get.
In re proof of religion, you would have to get an Imam to write a letter supporting your conversion as real.
As a theological matter, simply reciting the Shahada is enough. As a practical matter, showing that you’re serious is required. Being able to recite, from memory and in the right register such items as al-Fatiha and other common prayers, knowing how to pray in a generally acceptable manner (not flawless, but showing you put some effort in.).
On the Hajj, everyone is required by tradition to wear the garmets of the Hajj. You don’t bloody waltz around in chinos or something as disrespectful as some damned sport jersey. As for tatooes, they are rather heavily frowned upon in most circles and while one can pass off such things as a full arm of tatooing, you had bloody well know your prayers and Quran right good.
The Hajj is the culmilation of a devout Muslim’s life, and even the non-devout take it rather seriously – your fucking with it will not be taken lightly, regardless of what the law says. Getting the shit kicked out of you by pilgrims would be right up there with the risks, as your ‘tourism’ is a real desacration in most people’s eyes.
So again, don’t even think of this unless you don’t mind get your just desserts.
Now, me I could do it, but I have some respect in me.
Thanks for the responses. One of things I’m trying to figure out is how they can differentiate between Muslims and non-Muslim. There are several checkpoints along the road to Mecca, but I can’t find any info on what mechanisms they use to determine of one shall pass them or not. How much knowledge of Islam does one need to possess? Could I convert for a week to visit, and then unconvert on the plane back? If I need a local mosque to sponsor me, is there a certain amount of time I must be a member, or is when they think I’m ready they recommend me?
I have no desire to break the laws of a foreign country, I was curious to see if this was something I could realistically pull off, (btw I didn’t even know this was illegal), but apparently its a bigger deal then I was aware of.
Mods feel free to shut down this thread if I’ve crossed a line, otherwise Dopers, keep the info coming.
Looks like a bunch of my questions were answered composing that last post.
Shibb Recite passages in clasical Arabic? Ouch! Is it safe to assume that every person visiting Mecca can do that?
Collunsbury, it is not my intention to belittle something that is important to over a billion people. I don’t think I need to remind you of the purpose of the 'dope, we are fighting some of mine right now. I have some questions, if they rub you the wrong way, perhaps you shouldn’t participate in this thread. That would be a shame however, because of your firsthand knowledge of Islam.
Faking a conversion to Christianity is easy to do. You just show up to church on Sunday, lie about your true beliefs, maybe get a little water dribbled on your head and you’re done.
Faking a conversion to Islam is a different matter altogether. In Islam you will need to go through about two years of study with a imam. You will need to learn to read Arabic, how to pray and about Islamic history and culture. If the imam determines that you’re not sincere, you can forget about the conversion. The process of converting to Judaism is similar.
If you’re of African ancestory, you could instantly convert to Islam in a “Black Muslim” church in the U.S. (think Malcolm X and Luis Farrakan) but that particular brand of Islam is not recognized by the Saudis.
I suggest that you find another hobby.
Haj, whose name has nothing to do with The Hajj
Ability to prove one is a Muslim, which is obviously rather higher if one comes from a non-Muslim country, has a non-Muslim (in their eyes) legal name on one’s legal documents.
Getting the initial visa would require such proof.
Listen and understand in case it did not sink in the first time. Which it evidentaly did not.
Muslims take the Hajj very, very seriously Got that? Your ‘pretending’ is a matter of serious fucking disrespect. Getting yourself beaten do death by offended Hajjis is among the realistic risks, because frankly you do not strike me as someone who’s gonna convince me of being a Muslim. And I may add you’d fully deserve it.
Now, converting in this context means saying the Shahada and then memorizing some prayers. In Quranic Arabic. This is not easy. Never mind understanding the same, but that is not really required. You also need to learn how to pray, again a relatively involved process. Again, not something one does in a week. Or two. Or three. As for a local mosque, given the limited opps for longstanding members to go on Hajj, see below, I rather don’t believe they’d just jump at the chance for a tatooed wannabe to get a visa to Mecca on a lark.
Passing the controls overall then is not trivial. As I said, I could do this, in a technical sense. I know a good number of prayers, I know how to pray (not well, but a little practice), I speak Arabic fluently. It would be trivially easy for me to do so.
However, I would not and have not done so because:
(a) It is a matter of serious goddamned disrespect to the believers. Just as I behave myself properly when visting an Xian church and don’t go where one is not allowed to go. Out of common respect.
(b) There are limited opportunities for people to go on Hajj. Only so many opportunities in re visas granted. Your going diretly deprives someone else who really wants to go for reasons other than a thrill of the opportunity to go.
Now, I rather hope that I have adequately explained why this idea is bad. Why it is highly disrespectful (along the lines of asking “How do I smoke a doobie in St Peters w/o getting caught”) and dumb.
Rubbish. All you need to do formally is say the Shahada and mean it.
2 yrs of study may very well be required by some to weed out the players and the posers, but that’s not a formal requirement, per se.
No, it is not.
In re the reading of the Arabic, again that is not necessary per se. Knowing some standard prayers and memorizing some passages (not necessarily really being able to read them) is nice to prove you’re legitimately converting.
Doing this constitutes “sh*tting in your own nest”.
Find a better means of amusement.
Your ‘pretending’ is a matter of serious fucking disrespect.
Pretending, maybe. Wanting to visit a religious site, no. It’s not as if he wants to destroy it (like, say, some Buddhist art…)
I can definitely understand a non-Muslim wanting to gain an outsider’s perspective of Mecca. If I weren’t female, atheist and uncomfortable in extremely large crowds, I’d be first in line. Also, as mentioned above, it probably isn’t worth the risk.
Yes it is safe to assume that every single Hajji can indeed recite several passages from the Quran. al-Fatiha, for example, and several others.
All Muslim prayers are in Quranic Arabic. All of them. People know them, and know them well. They may not know the actual meaning in Arabic, per se, but they can recite them.
I am trying to clue you in on the import of the matter. I frankly could care less, on a personal level. However, someone has to let you know the actual import of the issue at hand. I can do that, I think I have.
Hmmm, ask a question about Islam, and Collounsbury cusses at you, belittles you and makes you feel like a jerk.
If a person can’t ask an honest question here (no matter how obvious you might think the answer is), what’s the point of GQ?
On another note, ShibbOleth: It was my understanding that women were just as required to perform the haj as men, if it’s possible for them (i.e. not pregnant, sick, or poor.) This isn’t so? 
Isn’t a woman’s participation just as important as a man’s, since much of it traces a woman’s (Hagar’s) historic journey with her son?
Happy
(a) The rules are clear. No non-Muslims in Mecca. Very holy place. Very important to Muslims. Not a tourist attraction. Breaking the rules is a matter of serious disrespect, for the trivial desire to be a damned tourist. Wanna see a mosque, go somewhere else. Most are open to non-Muslims. When one visits a damned Cathedral, one respects the roped off areas, the no go place. Visiting the Vatican, for example, one doesn’t barge into areas off limits. ** It is a matter of serious disrespect to do so.**
(b) I fail to see the relevance of the Bhuddist art. So, a group of idiots blow up some statues after being roundly condemned by most of their coreligionists, this somehow has relevance?
It’s probably confusing for WorldEater, because other world religions have holy sites that are nevertheless booming tourist attractions, such as the Vatican, and the whole Bethlehem Nativity thing. And anymore, there aren’t that many places in the world where you can’t book a tour, places where the tour groups don’t go, where you just absolutely can’t get there from here. Even formerly inaccessible spots like Antarctica and the Amazon and Earth orbit are available for booking. Mecca’s one of the few places on Planet Earth where your VISA card can’t get you in. So I understand the “But, why can’t I…?” aspect of it.
The issue is not “whether you could learn to fake it or not”. Sure, anybody could learn to fake it, in a week or so of serious coaching, and then sneak himself in, figure out a way to finesse the special visa thing. James Bond does this sort of thing all the time. And of course Q provides him with the special pilgrim’s visa, and books him with a pilgrim’s tour group, and then he gets in there and defuses the nuke that’s set to detonate and start WW III.
But the point is not whether you can fake it–the point is whether you should. The members of this religion take the exclusivity of their particular holy place very, very seriously, and for you to sneak in and then come home triumphantly with a photo album full of digital pix for you to post on your website or whatever, would just be–well, tacky is the only word for it. Super tacky.
007 would at least have the excuse that he had to get in there to defuse the nuke that was going to explode and thereby start WW III. Your only excuse would be, what? “Because it was there”? “Because it sounded like a kewl thing to do”? “Because you wanna be able to say oh yeah Mecca, been there, done that, got the T-shirt”?