The wife and I went to see the X-Men movie last night. This old fanboy had a great time and Mrs. Trion, who knows nothing mutants and suchlike also thought it was a great movie.
Which brings us to today’s topic. The ever controversial Mutant Registration Act. Should Mutants be required by law to register themselves and their powers? I’ll bite the bullet and take the pro-registration stance. Like the good Senator Kelly says, we require prople to register their guns, why not the deadly powers of a mutant.
Trion, Mutant Registration Act?
I’m pretty sure you would think different if your kid was a mutant. Or your wife. How do you know theyr’e not right now? They could be that pen you use to right with, or the picture hanging on the wall, or bucket of water and gorilla in your kitchen (if theyr’e twins of course).
I’m going to call for the expansion of civil rights acts to prohibit discrimination on the basis of inherent genetic characteristics (boy wouldn’t that simplify the language of those laws–sex, race, sexual orientation, mutant powers…all covered).
Registration requirements seem reasonable on the face of it. Unfortunately, they’re the thin edge of the wedge; it’s all to easy to use them to develop discriminatory practices. Yes, we require people to register their guns–but we don’t require them to register knives, or martial arts training, both of which can also be deadly.
Besides, do you really want Magneto pissed at you?
soulsling - Are you suggesting that my wife and kids are twins?? Wow. I never would have thought of that. And you aren’t going to get out of the argument by apealing to my love for my wife (or referencing the Wonder Twins for that matter). Two can play that game. Like so:
If my kid had the ability to shoot razor sharp quills out of his but, and you came home to find your wife dead, punctured with quills covered in fecal matter, wouldn’t you want the police to know who was capable of such an act??
Balance - You’re right about non registration of knives, but we don’t allow kids to bring knives to school. SHould we just let the mutant kids to bring their potentially deadly powers to school without even knowing about it? The rest of your argument sounds very “Slipery Slope” to me. A new law may be used unfairly. Many of the laws we have are used unfairly now. That doesn’t make the law bad, just the people who abuse it.
You’re right about Magneto though. I think I may be in trouble now.
Trion, like anyone else, the cops are gonna have to book’em. So in a mutants case it’s just slightly tougher to catch the fiends, but still, what if your family were mutants, would you feel that way? Like any criminal, once a crime is committed, they profile the individual. Perhaps like fingerprints, it should go on record what the mutant ability is, but not to go so far as to be registered. I can’t believe i’m doing this, i really need to get out more…
It’s admittedly a “slippery slope” argument, and I know the problems with such arguments. The fact that so people abuse so many existing laws is what worries me, though; this law has great potential for abuse. If we were mature enough as a society to put aside our prejudices and treat everyone fairly, then I would have no problem with a registration act–I’m sure that’s the situation you’re envisioning. The fact that it singles out a segment of the population as “different and dangerous” makes marginalization and fear of mutants all too likely–even though not all mutants have dangerous powers. At the very least, the law needs to be hedged in with protective clauses to prevent its misapplication. I’m no expert on the history of this kind of law (mandatory registration of a minority, not of weapons); has a similar law ever been enacted without leading to discriminatory practices?
As for the kids…granted, they could endanger others in school. Given the intolerant climate so prevalent in schools today, a violent power emergence is all too likely. They have a right to an education, too, though; do you want ignorant people with deadly powers running around? A more appropriate way to deal with this might be to routinely test children for mutant characteristics and provide parents with the information confidentially, just as doctors currently do with medical problems. Then the parents could decide how best to deal with their particular child’s characteristics–whether sending him to a special school where the staff is prepared to contain dangerous powers or sending a note to his teacher: “John is likely to spontaneously turn things blue. Please don’t be alarmed, the effect wears off in about an hour.” Needless to say, sending the child to a special school would amount to registering him, but at least he’s got a shot at fair treatment and won’t likely hurt anyone. “John”, OTOH, has a fairly harmless power and can certainly do without being stigmatized as a “dangerous mutant” just because his name’s on a list somewhere.
You think you need to get out more, soulsling? Look at the size of my post! It’s like Great Debates, without anyone getting pissed off–much more fun this way.
I thought that’s all this was. Registering a mutant ability so that there’s a database of who can do what. I haven’t read the comic in a while so the Act may be more restrictive than I thought. Let me know if I’m wrong.
There are of course the problems involved in application. Which brings me to Balance:
Agreed. I’d say privacy is a key issue here. If were going to do this we need to make sure that access to the database is severly restricted. For Law Enforcemet purposes, say only the Avengers could look up info on a power used in a recent crime and feed that information to the police.
As for the kids:
Agreed again. Only the parents, kid and maybe the principle need know. Otherwise only an immature 15 year old boy may the only one who knows he can spontaniously burn things.
Exactly what I was shooting for. Something like the Star Destroyer vs. the Enterprise thread.
What, exactly, are we proposing as punishment for mutants who refuse to register? Or parents/teachers/doctors who refuse to register a child they know to have mutant abilities? (One presumes, for example, that Nightcrawler was obviously a mutant from birth).
I for one am against this sort of discriminatory law; if a person proves themselves dangerous and out of control that’s one thing. But I believe the law in this country is currently "Innocent until proven guilty, and I definitely don’t think we can presume someone is guilty simply by fact of their genetic makeup.
Of course, I could just be sensitive to the matter, since I’m the only one of my friends who set off the “Mutant Detector” at the Marvel Comics Restaurant…
I was under the impression that the Registration Act involved carrying some sort of paperwork or license, permit whatever which would be a complete form of discrimination IMO. I meant only holding the information on record, the way we do any other profiles on people. In the army, they have my tattoos on record. At some point in life, many people have their fingerprints taken for record. Dental records. So why not a doctor keeping medical records involving the information of being a mutant. If something legal came up, and they needed to profile the act, they could sift through medical records containing similar traits. Or is that actually illegal? I wouldn’t know.
I dunno dogsbody - what’s the punishment for not registering your gun. Remember, we aren’t considering anybody guilty. No one is going to jail just because they’re a mutant. The act is for informational purposes only. Maybe the name should be changed to “The Mutant POWER Registration Act.”
I am, however, starting to see a possible legal issue. If one doens’t want to register as a gun owner, one can choose not to have a gun. You can’t choose not to be a mutant. I think we may need some lawyers in here to discuss inherent rights.
Damn. I think you’re right soulsling. I think this was the way it worked in the comics. And I don’t like it either.
OK. I’m introducing a new act - The Mutant Power Registration Act. It is only designed to set up a national database with information on who has which mutant power. Nothing more. Any problems?
Remember that the Act was promulgated by a rabidly anti-mutant legislator. IIRC, it (or at least one version of the bill) criminalizes failure to register even if the mutant is unaware of his powers. Voluntary registration wouldn’t be so bad–I could even see mutants registering their powers with employment agencies…
Again, IIRC: There were no specific provisions for restricting access to the database. Presumably, anyone with access to standard law enforcement databases could look at it. Certainly politicians could get at it and use it for political purposes.
As for the kids:
It might actually cut down on bullying if word got out-- anybody else here read Brightly Burning? Overall, though, the more people that know in the school, the worse it’s likely to be. It wouldn’t be a good idea to traumatize the kid by ostracizing him, either.
If you want this to go on like the Enterprise vs ISD thread, you’re gonna have to quit agreeing with me so much. Maybe we should invite FriendofGod over? Nah.
Summary of agreements so far:
It is desirable for some fair agency to know who has potentially dangerous powers.
It is desirable for this information to remain as private as possible.
It is desirable for any mutant abilities to be included in the profile of a criminal, and in his record once convicted.
I think that the dividing line is the mandatory nature of the registration. The Act you propose would require registration for all mutants with (presumably) some form of prosecution for nonregistration. I submit that in the absence of intolerance by non-mutants, most mutants with potentially dangerous powers would probably be registered voluntarily (by themselves or their parents) in the process of enrolling in schools suited to their abilities. Mutants with very minor quirks need never register–“Oh, crap, I just discovered that I can piss violet at will. Guess I’d better head down to the DMV and register.” Does anyone really need to know that?
Just read your updated proposal in preview. I think the above still applies.
I’d also like to see additional legislation or wording with the above that would prevent the military from “force-conscription” of those with powers that are useful to them.
I’m not suggesting that we change the laws on the books (male registration at 18), just that we prevent women and young children from being hauled off. After all, the military would know exactly who they were, and what’s to stop them from thinking of mutants as just another weapon?
-note- no offense intended to those in the military. It’s just a scenario that occurred to me.
I can’t find the penalties for not registering a weapon, sorry, or I’d post them.
Gun ownership is a Constitutionally protected right, so the analogy between gun registration and mutant registration is faulty. Besides, gun ownership is completely voluntary. No one has a choice over their genetic makeup. Please put me firmly on the side of anti-registration.
I do acknowledge that those with mutant powers have a greater ability to do harm and good with their abilities than the average person. Therefore, the law should reflect greater punishment for people who commit crimes with an X-ability. In the meantime, I’d like to see non-government agencies created by mutants for mutants to educate and support mutants in a completely voluntary manner.
Sorry if I disagree with you too much Balance. I guess we’ll just have to agree to agree.
So far so good. Here’s where you loose me:
So you can tell just by looking at it that the violet pee doesn’t cause seisures in people over 50 for instance. Sorry, everybody’s gotta register.
dogsbody - I hadn’t thought about registering males for the draft as a similarity, but off the top of my head is sounds good. If men at age 18 without powers have to register with the US government, why can’t we do it with mutants?
Fine. This has been added to my Mutant Powers Registration Act.
phouka says:
I said something similar above and I’m still thinking about this. But having said that, the government registers all males above 18. You have no control over your gender, same as genetic makeup. How do the two differ?
As far as I’m concerned, non-government agencies can do what they want. If mutants want to set up education and support programs they are free to do so and are protected like any other program by law.
Vote Trion in 2000!
-for a kindler gentler reactionary!
Well, I can come up with one (instant, and rather knee-jerk) response to this: The government doesn’t always get it right. My Aunt Gary received no less than seven calls from the draft folks, wondering why “he” hadn’t registered yet. Who’s to say that the same sort of screw-ups won’t end up happening, causing pressure on non-mutants (or non-aware mutants, which I am aware are not the same groups).
Understand that I am still not in favor of this act, in large part because I consider it discriminatory, and far too easily used to censure or otherwise invade the civil rights of a group of people.
After all, Trion, even if we can trust you;), who’s to say we can trust the next senator who decides to “modify” your Act?
Told you that was the dividing line. I’m still trying to envision a) This poor sap actually using this power and b)someone over 50 coming in contact with the resultant colorful urine. A significant group of people is allergic to cats. Do you register all cats and track their location? The problem is one of scale: this implies far too much governmental intervention IMHO. If a government tries to take care of every little detail of citizens’ lives, it quickly becomes both oppressive and unwieldy. In a perfect world, everyone would register their “powers” voluntarily–and people would wonder why some of them bothered.
Certainly we can do it with mutants–they have to register with Selective Services, too. Despite the apparent similarities, this really doesn’t apply too well. Draft registration is required in order to facilitate rapid response to the exigencies of war. It exists so that we can quickly field or replenish an army in response to a threat. The fact that only males are required to register is a holdover from more chauvinistic times. Mutants would already be subject to these laws–and presumably the physical would soon come to include tests for mutant abilities. This would allow (in our little fantasy world) more efficient placement of those with unusual talents. Registration would only facilitate this insofar as it allows the doc to skip a step in the exam.
Draft registration essentially says, “Here I am if you need me. (Damn, I hope you never need me.)” Mutant registration says, “Here I am, different and potentially dangerous. (Where’s everybody going?)”
That’s a start, anyway. I’m also concerned about the fairness of a draft if the Draft Board has access to the database, though.
As I pointed out above, the “male-only” registration is a holdover. If the legislation were enacted today, it would at least have vocal supporters for gender equity in the registration.
I would strongly recommend a voucher program for students with potentially dangerous powers to enable them to go to a school better prepared to deal with them. It would be cheaper in the long run than rebuilding the regular public schools every year…
As reactionaries go, you’re not too bad, Trion, but I cannot approve of any mandatory registration of a minority. If we stick with setting up a database with a voluntary registration program, that’s different.
When are we going to see the text of this bill of yours? English, please–my mutant powers don’t include reading legalese.
