Re X-Men - If super powered beings existed woudn't it make sense to register & control them?

If you looked at the Marvel Universe there was a huge story arc about the attempt by various authorities to register and control mutants and other super powered beings. In this context the authorities are always (sooner or later) viewed as the bad guys.

In comic book land these beings fight with each other and wreak local and occasionally global devastation on a regular basis. If these fights happened for real untold millions of normal humans would die annually in the side effects from these battles. Wouldn’t it be common sense to try and control this level of devastation?

Wouldn’t it be the ethical and moral thing to do as a head of state to try and contain these powered individuals?

Everyone is capable of doing things that hurt society. You don’t need superpowers to destroy a city block and kill a lot of people (though certain powers make it easy).

Why don’t we put tracking anklets on the entire population?

Because they haven’t done anything wrong. If you are born with mutant powers but never use them for evil, why should the government treat you as if you are going to do so?

Quite possibly, yes. It’s also useful to remember that in various media, Senator Kelly (and in the role of Principal Kelly in X-Men Evolution) is often shown as a reasonable man with a different point of view. Not always, in the same vein that Magneto tends to go back and forth between sympathetic villain and complete madman depending on the whim of the current editorial staff. More to the point, you cannot claim he wrong. There were dangerous, murderous mutants with no regard for humans life and with the ability and willingness to cause immense destruction, simply because it was easy. In the 2000 movie, there’s a nontrivial chance Magneto would have killed ten million people with his little toy, not to mention murdering a noticeable chunk of the world’s diplomatic corps. In the comics, Magneto has come close to doing the same on multiple occasions.

This is also the recent desire of the movies to treat it as a racial/ethnic/gay symbol of something is a serious weak point. We have nothing like this in human history. Some mutants are potentially capable of destroying the world - solo. Heck, even the more powerful non-mutant heroes in the Avengers and so on are not usually portrayed in that light. Tony Stark, as a villain, could do a lot of damage. But he’s not a Global Extinction Event threat. Magneto? Yes. Professor X? Yes. Phoenix? Yes. Apocalypse? Yes.

Even if they intend to be good guys who use their abilities responsibly, mutants have frequently been depicted as careless, destructive and apathetic about their impact on others, precisely because their powers are simply innate. They never really were ‘normal’ and so they assume they have a right to use their powers. Whereas many other superheroes had to learn discipline and/or understand what it’s like to just be one of the crowd, even if (in the case of Tony Stark) that’s the relatively slender crowd of genius billionaire playboys.

The problem is that the writing and editorial staff are, to be utterly frank, grossly too immature to really consider the implications of any of it. it sounds bad, therefore it must be evil, and anyone who agrees must be evil. It’s childish logic, but nobody ever said comic book writers were a particularly mature lot. At best, they sometimes raise interesting questions and write interesting Sci Fi. They are not collectively known for doing so very well. It’s more annoying in Marvel because they insisted on having so many mutants, and on treating them completely different than the many other superheroes. The recent-ish Civil War storyline was a particularly obnoxious example, with writers inserting dividing up and then having evil things the “other side” did. But it was mostly anti-registration to a ridiculous degree.

Now, don’t mistake me for saying I’m automatically in favor a Superhuman Registration Act, should we ever have a few sitting around. But I do think we would need to consider very carefully the impact of superhumans on society, as well as the impact of society on superhumans. You do not “fix” the problem by ignoring it - and you definitely do not fix it by remaining ignorant of it. This was something I really liked in X-Men (2000). Senator Kelly’s clearest demand? He wanted to know what the heck mutants could do. And that’s neither unreasonable nor evil. In fact, we see that a high-level national bureaucracy actually came about by the time of the third film and was actually handled very well although it got limited screentime. A blatant mutant was a high-ranking government official and mutant criminals were treated as dangerous prisoners. Yet, even though the government had the ability to do so, it didn’t remove their super-powers. It was willing to use extreme measures if forced by violent action, not otherwise.

And this is the ultimate hypocrisy. Mutants (and other superheroes) are often treated by writers as being special. They are given license to do almost anything with no repercussions. They are not answerable to “normal” people. If a supervillain causes a problem, only other superpeople can handle it. The X-Men, for instance, break an awful lot of laws, but there’s never any hint that they should be expected to pay for that. They are allowed to be “normal” when they want or be “super” when they please. And Mystique, for all the fact that she’s at least honest about, is also a complete hypocrite. (At least in the 2000 movie. She’s a monster in multiple other ways in the comics.) She claims that she shouldn’t “have” to hide her abilities. Fair enough. But she also claims the right to kill for convenience. In short, she is the reason people are afraid of her, and wants to flaunt how superspecialawesome she is while also demanding people treat her as “normal” in whatever ways her whim happens to be. Kinda like Oprah Winfry.

It’s one reason I like the Avengers or the Justice League more as I’ve gotten older. While these teams are not precisely public and many members hjave secret identities, they also have clear lines they cannot cross and may face sanctions if they do. They may not be under the thumb of a single government, but they’re also usually careful about interfering with governments. Sure - the lines get blurred when a supervillain is also a head-of-state or has a government protecting them. But in general, these groups beat up villains and turn them over to civilians (or quasi-military groups that specialize at incarcerating supervillains). They often let government departments know what’s going on. Quite frankly, the X-Men and other similar groups do whatever the hell they please and then complain if somebody else gets in the way of them.

Heck, even Batman works as closely as he can manage with the cops, even when the cops are portrayed as dangerously corrupt. When was the last time the X-Men called the police to warn them and coordinate a response?

Sure, you can try. Good luck running that past someone like Magneto.

This was discussed in Great Debates back in 2005: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=322160

Contain? No. That’s depriving citizens of due process because they have the potential to do something. But in the same way we register guns and track fertilizer sales (now) and such, the government should be appraised of lethal capability.

There’s a YA series called Wearing The Cape that does a pretty good job creating a realistic super-inhabited world. Basically, when someone gets powers, they register with the Dept. of Superhuman Affairs, which keeps their identities private (though people can still be outed by the paparazzi, witnesses, etc). They’re given training to control their abilities, then the option to return to their lives, and either become a superhero, join various branches of the military or law enforcement, or work for the private sector (typically some form of entertainment).

The exception is minors, who attend one of several special schools with other super-powered kids and get training in handling their abilities; once they graduate, the above applies as far as options. As I read it, this isn’t mandatory, but once someone demonstrates super-powers, they can’t attend public school. You can be home-schooled and such, but once you’re registered, you and your family are accountable. If your home-schooled off-spring kills or hurts someone, there’s no “hey, we didn’t know he could throw flames that far.” He’s off to super-juvie and you’re facing civil suits. The least-common option is sidekicking - a hero with similar abilities assumes responsibility for mentoring you; this has been fraught with sex scandals, real and sensationalized.

Villains are dealt with by superhero teams or government agencies (DSA teams, super-soldier groups, etc) and contained in special facilities. And yes, they’ve had disaster movie-level incidents, with one villain gassing a stadium in Indiana and another triggering an earthquake in CA that killed thousands. They deal with it, like other disasters, though of course there are contingents calling for “lock’em all up.” And it’s implied that other countries (like China) have a binary “you work for the government, or you go to prison” system.

(Marvelous post, smiling bandit! That one’s going in my archive.)

I wonder if bribery might work better as an incentive towards registration…“register your identity and powers with the government, you get an ID card…and a free XBox!:smiley:

'Probably be cheaper than building a squadron of killbots, at least.

On a related note, I always thought that The Incredibles had a logical outcome for the “social problem” of un-controlled Supers, and that it was interesting that the ending didn’t really resolve the original problem, but left it open that the cycle may very well continue like that again.

I do think that it’s unfortunate that the question of supers has been associated with race or sex/gender preference, because the real question is one of power disparity. Asian people don’t shoot death rays from their eyes. Gay people can’t lift cars with their minds. Transgender folk can’t alter a person’s thoughts or moods.

The question is better equated to what we’re finding now with professionals and students “abusing” off-label medications to use as “performance-enhancing” drugs. A lot of people are against it, and that’s fine, but if my surgeon is running on hour 14 of his shift after 4 hours of sleep, I’d much rather he be taking performance drugs than not! If they’re proven to be not too harmful, they may even be marketed for that purpose, and remain commensurately expensive, making the wealthy actually more mentally/physically powerful than the lower classes.

Now THERE’s a decent Supers analogy from the real world.

Heck, in the second movie, he and Mystique casually start a chain of events that would kill the entire nonmutant human race, stopped only by a collaboration of Nightcrawler and Storm.

If something akin to superhuman mutation started happening now, I can easily see amniocentesis or similar prenatal genetic screening becoming mandatory. Anything unusual and the pregnant woman must either abort or immediately surrender her child to the state after delivery.

I liked the way the comic book The Boys looked at superheroes.

Of course a good number would be arrogant bastards. They’re gods among mere insects.
And, of course they’d be incompetent. Police train years to successfully deescalate hostage situations. Why would someone magically be good at that just because they can run really fast?

You’d like Steelheart - a side effect of superpowers is megalomania, so everyone that uses his powers is a villain; the only way to stay good is stay normal.

I’ve been recently reading the superhero webcomic Grrl Power. The way they handle it is that if you have powers and don’t hurt people & break laws then what you do is your business (the Second Amendment is specifically brought up). And in fact most people with powers just join the military (one of the supers is a colonel in fact), use them for a legitimate profit or for stuff like rescue work.

But if you want to use your powers to fight crime superhero style you join up with the government & get a badge, or you go to jail for being a vigilante. That seems a lot more sensible to me than for people to have the idea that all you need to do is put on a fancy costume and suddenly you can go out and beat up criminals.

Or the web-serial Worm, where due to the awakening of powers being caused by trauma supers are usually seriously screwed up psychologically.

Of course there’s the question of how you “make” a being like Superman or Magneto do anything they don’t want to do.

Sure I can, quite easily. Bigotry doesn’t become okay because of outside circumstances. (Refer how we couldn’t start rounding up all brown people because some brown people knocked down some towers.) Not all mutants are the same, and treating them as if they were the same means you are punishing them for being mutants, not guarding against them because they might be dangerous.

The fact that Magneto is dangerous is not a reason to assume all mutants are dangerous, any more than the fact that a black assassin is a reason to assume all black people are dangerous. Different mutants have different power sets and different mindsets. The registration assumes that all mutants are dangerous, rather than treating each powerset as different types of weapons.

And, let’s not forget, nearly every mutant that has caused problems has done so because they were shunned early on and thus did not form an attachment to humanity. Creating a special registration for them is surely not going to make these guys feel more connected. Especially when they’ve been living most of their life with a secret identity, having a functional life that way, and then suddenly forced to give that up.

Mutants need to be treated as people, not as dangerous things that need to be controlled. If you really are just about safety, you should be bending over backwards to make mutants lives better. You should be listening to their concerns and helping them. And forced registration sure as heck doesn’t do that.

Unfortunately this includes the good guys, which, as far as I’ve gotten, seems to be the main source of problems. The good guy capes are not treated like they have anything wrong with them, instead being assumed to be better at dealing with other capes than anyone else.

A bunch of non-powered psychologists that specialize in capes would probably make that world a much better place.

There’s also the problem of history & intentions. Simply put, Marvel humans don’t have a history of treating mutants well, and aren’t that much better with non-mutant supers either. So it’s a given that any registration system they set up is going to be designed and implemented oppressively and abusively. In some other setting without that attitude problem that may not be the case.

And the question of whether trying will just push them into doing something that you don’t want them to do.

If I was a mutant, depending on the power, I would probably volunteer to have my powers suppressed. Sure, power of flight would be great, but I can’t think of any practical reason to have (for example) eyebeams and the potential for killing someone (either accidentally, or because they just cut me up in traffic) is huge

Of course that’s another problem with Marvel mutants; their powers lean so heavily toward being made for combat. If the great majority of powers weren’t any good for fighting then they’d be able to pull off the persecuted minority theme a lot better. Getting all paranoid about someone because they can change their hair color at will or can see in ultraviolet is a lot more clearly unreasonable than being paranoid about people who can kill you without effort.

Its also the problem with Xavier’s school. Its supposed to provide an full education, so mutants can go on to have a normal life, but everyone who goes there ends up in a paramilitary operation (either one of the X-groups, or one run by a bad guy). I can’t recall a single person who found a way to use their powers for commercial gain

Even someone like Cypher, who has powers are clearly well-tailored for a job with the UN or something, ends up fighting bad guys