My Evening with the Out of Control Dog

[Spit]

I learned this weekend that the Dog Whisperer guy knows his stuff. I always thought it was impossible that he could turn a dog around that quickly.

Anyway, the Wife and I went to the in-laws on Saturday evening because some friends of her parents had come to town, and she wanted to visit. When we arrived to the house, the friends had taken my in-laws out to dinner, so my Wife and I headed in to the house for a few adult libations before their return…only to be greeted by the most hyperactive dog I have ever seen.

He is a Manchester Terrier, and he was insane. This dog jumped all over me, my Wife, the couch, the piano, the kitchen table…It was crazy how quickly this hell dog moved.

Screw this, I am going to go in the living room and watch some TV. My Wife can deal with the little SOB heh, heh, heh. I settled down on the couch with some Crown on the rocks, and found a small soccer match on some obscure channel that wasn’t in English. What was turning out to be a good evening for Spit was abruptly ended by a flash of black, a paw in my glass, and a mouth tugging at my shirt collar.

I was not amused. I put the dog on the floor, wiped myself off, and (grumbling several unpleasant names under my breath) went and refreshed my drink.

Just as I had gotten my butt cheeks back in to a nice groove on the couch, here he comes again. I saved the drink by holding it over my head, while trying to shoo the dog off of the couch. I called to my Wife for assistance. She tossed me the dogs favorite towel, which she indicated I was to use as a distraction device.

This would have been a great plan had she looked in my direction before throwing the towel. Instead, she threw it blindly, causing the towel to land over my left hand’s best impression of the Statue of Liberty, which in turn caused the dog to jump for the towel, pouring all of the Crown on my head.

I was not a happy man. I put the dog in the garage, and he began to destroy all of the tools. At this point, I was going to go hide in the bathroom and wait it out until the owners returned.

Suddenly I thought about the Cesar guy, and pondered the possibilities…he always made it look so easy on television. What the heck, I just have to establish dominance, right?

I came out of the bathroom, and the dog was there chewing on a couch pillow.

(At this point, I must pause because I can’t directly insult a poster, so let me go ahead and get this out of the way: No dogs were harmed in the following post. If you somehow think I abused the dog, you are an idiot, a moron, and should STFU and go back in your hole.)

I picked up the dog, flipped him on his back, and held him there. I made those little ssch! noises. The dog stopped squirming, so I let him back up. He stood still for a about 5 seconds, and then immediately resumed his previous behaviour. I picked him up again, flipped him on his back, and made the noises- except this time, I let my right had drape over his neck, barely making contact. He immediately stopped squirming, so I waited about another 5 seconds, and let him up.

Wow. He was a completely different dog! The little guy started following me everywhere. We played some fetch, and wrestled with his towel. Afterwards, I again poured a drink, and sat down to watch the match. The dog came over, hopped on the couch beside me with his head in my lap, and took a nap while I scratched his ears.

Then the owners returned, and away he went. Jumping all over them, biting at their legs- and I kid you not, the lady went over and got him a treat to “Calm him down”. :mad:

I however, had zero problem with him. They were amazed at how calm he was around me, and that they could never get him to sit still on their laps at home. Of course I kept my mouth shut, because I like getting laid by my Wife.
So anyway, I learned that indeed, you really can turn a dog’s demeanor around quickly with proper pack behaviour. It would be interesting to see how quickly a professional could do the job with a bad case.

[Wile_E]

“Terrier” is just a couple letters off from “terror”, this is not a coincidence.

People rarely train their cute little dogs and let them get away with a lot
of crap that a big dog would not be allowed to do. This just teaches the little dog that they are the ones in charge.

[Ferret_Herder]

I grew up with a wire-haired fox terrier as the first “baby” of the house, and she was a dream of a dog. Loyal, viciously (literally) protective of us kids, and pretty darned well-trained.

I think my mother was thinking about that dog when she got her latest dog. Some kind of Jack Russell + other terrier mix. Oh my god, that dog barks. He does not want people to walk around in the house. If you’re all sitting down he’s probably all right, but someone gets up and he goes into a barking frenzy, amplified by the hardwood floors so that your ears are ringing before long. I say “probably” because you could drive him to bark just by waving your hands at him. I think it might be a misplaced herding instinct; whatever it is, it’s really annoying to visit her house because of that yapping.

It really came to a head when I went to visit her at Christmas. I was wearing big boots and took those and the winter socks (for padding) off, and slipped into other shoes. The dog stole a sock and ran into his crate. Mom tried to get the sock back and was reaching into the crate; I tried to warn her that probably wasn’t a good idea. Yup, the dog bit her. The wound wasn’t severe, just a smallish scratch that broke the skin on the back of her hand, but I think Mom’s feelings were hurt more. I don’t think we’ve had a dog that bit her more-or-less intentionally (he may have just been “choking up” on the sock, I didn’t see).

During the visit, I mockingly “threatened” the dog more than once that I would buy Mom some Dog Whisperer DVDs/books. I’m pretty sure she agreed with that idea.

[Sailboat]

@Spit

(At this point, I must pause because I can’t directly insult a poster, so let me go ahead and get this out of the way: No dogs were harmed in the following post. If you somehow think I abused the dog, you are an idiot, a moron, and should STFU and go back in your hole.)

I picked up the dog, flipped him on his back, and held him there. I made those little ssch! noises. The dog stopped squirming, so I let him back up. He stood still for a about 5 seconds, and then immediately resumed his previous behaviour. I picked him up again, flipped him on his back, and made the noises- except this time, I let my right had drape over his neck, barely making contact. He immediately stopped squirming, so I waited about another 5 seconds, and let him up.

I’m going to come out of my hole long enough to say that you’re describing an “alpha roll.” Cesar Milan has advocated alpha rolls – his position is quite controversial – but specifically added that you are not supposed to do them unless you’ve been trained in them and how to read the dog.

The reason even advocates of alpha rolls tell you you’re not supposed to use them without training was recently explained by another TV dog trainer, Victoria Stilwell on her show, It’s Me or the Dog. The alpha roll is based on observing social interactions in wolf packs. The alpha does it to subordinate pack members. However, the people advocating it for use on dogs have failed to not that the subordinate wolves voluntarily submit to an alpha roll. If an alpha roll is performed on an unsuspecting dog, it bullies him, and immediately puts him into a fight-or-flight situation. “It’s a good way to force the dog to bite you,” Victoria says.

Cesar’s legal advisers seem to agree.

I’d say you got lucky this time.

[Cat_Whisperer]

I think (based on cats, but no dog training experience) that a big part of it is your attitude. If you go into it thinking, “I’m the human. This animal WILL listen to me, because that’s just how it’s going to be,” you’ll get farther than with an attitude of, “Well, I’ll give this a try, and see what Fluffy thinks of it.”

[Spit]

@Sailboat

@Spit

(At this point, I must pause because I can’t directly insult a poster, so let me go ahead and get this out of the way: No dogs were harmed in the following post. If you somehow think I abused the dog, you are an idiot, a moron, and should STFU and go back in your hole.)

I picked up the dog, flipped him on his back, and held him there. I made those little ssch! noises. The dog stopped squirming, so I let him back up. He stood still for a about 5 seconds, and then immediately resumed his previous behaviour. I picked him up again, flipped him on his back, and made the noises- except this time, I let my right had drape over his neck, barely making contact. He immediately stopped squirming, so I waited about another 5 seconds, and let him up.

I’m going to come out of my hole long enough to say that you’re describing an “alpha roll.” Cesar Milan has advocated alpha rolls – his position is quite controversial – but specifically added that you are not supposed to do them unless you’ve been trained in them and how to read the dog.

The reason even advocates of alpha rolls tell you you’re not supposed to use them without training was recently explained by another TV dog trainer, Victoria Stilwell on her show, It’s Me or the Dog. The alpha roll is based on observing social interactions in wolf packs. The alpha does it to subordinate pack members. However, the people advocating it for use on dogs have failed to not that the subordinate wolves voluntarily submit to an alpha roll. If an alpha roll is performed on an unsuspecting dog, it bullies him, and immediately puts him into a fight-or-flight situation. “It’s a good way to force the dog to bite you,” Victoria says.

Cesar’s legal advisers seem to agree.

I’d say you got lucky this time.

Whew! I nearly lost some fingers!

Seriously though (not being a trainer), I was fairly aware that the move would probably piss off the dog, and could end in a nip if not careful. I’ve never seen Cesar or anyone make that particular move, it just seemed like a “dominant” thing to do.

[Merneith]

@Sailboat

The alpha does it to subordinate pack members. However, the people advocating it for use on dogs have failed to not that the subordinate wolves voluntarily submit to an alpha roll. If an alpha roll is performed on an unsuspecting dog, it bullies him, and immediately puts him into a fight-or-flight situation. “It’s a good way to force the dog to bite you,” Victoria says.

Right. The thing is, the alpha roll is part of everyday wolfpack communication. The wolves grow up being alpha rolled as puppies and observing all the adult wolves doing it regularly. They know what it means when they get rolled. A dog, especially one who’s taken from its mother when it’s an infant and raised more or less alone, doesn’t have that background. Alpha rolling isn’t part of the way a single dog communicates regularly. Some dogs might have an instinct about rolling on their backs to show submission - but not all dogs do. It’s not common dog vocabulary the way it is common wolf vocabulary.

Dogs aren’t wolves. They share some instincts but they also have instincts which wolves lack (& vice versa.) It’s not safe to assume that a strange dog will understand alpha rolling from a person it doesn’t know.

[Acantha]

@Spit

I learned this weekend that the Dog Whisperer guy knows his stuff. I always thought it was impossible that he could turn a dog around that quickly.

Anyway, the Wife and I went to the in-laws on Saturday evening because some friends of her parents had come to town, and she wanted to visit. When we arrived to the house, the friends had taken my in-laws out to dinner, so my Wife and I headed in to the house for a few adult libations before their return…only to be greeted by the most hyperactive dog I have ever seen.

He is a Manchester Terrier, and he was insane. This dog jumped all over me, my Wife, the couch, the piano, the kitchen table…It was crazy how quickly this hell dog moved.

Screw this, I am going to go in the living room and watch some TV. My Wife can deal with the little SOB heh, heh, heh. I settled down on the couch with some Crown on the rocks, and found a small soccer match on some obscure channel that wasn’t in English. What was turning out to be a good evening for Spit was abruptly ended by a flash of black, a paw in my glass, and a mouth tugging at my shirt collar.

I was not amused. I put the dog on the floor, wiped myself off, and (grumbling several unpleasant names under my breath) went and refreshed my drink.

Just as I had gotten my butt cheeks back in to a nice groove on the couch, here he comes again. I saved the drink by holding it over my head, while trying to shoo the dog off of the couch. I called to my Wife for assistance. She tossed me the dogs favorite towel, which she indicated I was to use as a distraction device.

This would have been a great plan had she looked in my direction before throwing the towel. Instead, she threw it blindly, causing the towel to land over my left hand’s best impression of the Statue of Liberty, which in turn caused the dog to jump for the towel, pouring all of the Crown on my head.

I was not a happy man. I put the dog in the garage, and he began to destroy all of the tools. At this point, I was going to go hide in the bathroom and wait it out until the owners returned.

Suddenly I thought about the Cesar guy, and pondered the possibilities…he always made it look so easy on television. What the heck, I just have to establish dominance, right?

I came out of the bathroom, and the dog was there chewing on a couch pillow.

(At this point, I must pause because I can’t directly insult a poster, so let me go ahead and get this out of the way: No dogs were harmed in the following post. If you somehow think I abused the dog, you are an idiot, a moron, and should STFU and go back in your hole.)

I picked up the dog, flipped him on his back, and held him there. I made those little ssch! noises. The dog stopped squirming, so I let him back up. He stood still for a about 5 seconds, and then immediately resumed his previous behaviour. I picked him up again, flipped him on his back, and made the noises- except this time, I let my right had drape over his neck, barely making contact. He immediately stopped squirming, so I waited about another 5 seconds, and let him up.

Wow. He was a completely different dog! The little guy started following me everywhere. We played some fetch, and wrestled with his towel. Afterwards, I again poured a drink, and sat down to watch the match. The dog came over, hopped on the couch beside me with his head in my lap, and took a nap while I scratched his ears.

Then the owners returned, and away he went. Jumping all over them, biting at their legs- and I kid you not, the lady went over and got him a treat to “Calm him down”. :mad:

I however, had zero problem with him. They were amazed at how calm he was around me, and that they could never get him to sit still on their laps at home. Of course I kept my mouth shut, because I like getting laid by my Wife.
So anyway, I learned that indeed, you really can turn a dog’s demeanor around quickly with proper pack behaviour. It would be interesting to see how quickly a professional could do the job with a bad case.

I have a manchester, and they are the most stubborn and hyper dogs I’ve ever seen. Insane is an apt description.

I have to check this dog whisperer out.

[Spit]

Oddly, Acantha, it was not an episode of the Dog Whisperer that sparked my idea (Although I have seen a few episodes)- It was actually an episode of Southpark, where they parodied Cesar Milan helping Cartman’s mother get him under control. At the time, I was thinking “Holy crap, the parental advice most American parents need has been given on a cartoon!”. I supposed it could apply to dogs as well.

[Acantha]

@Spit

Oddly, Acantha, it was not an episode of the Dog Whisperer that sparked my idea (Although I have seen a few episodes)- It was actually an episode of Southpark, where they parodied Cesar Milan helping Cartman’s mother get him under control. At the time, I was thinking “Holy crap, the parental advice most American parents need has been given on a cartoon!”. I supposed it could apply to dogs as well.

Somehow that makes it even better.

[Misnomer]

If Spit doesn’t mind a little off-topic chatter…

@Merneith

Dogs aren’t wolves.

AMEN! Modern domesticated dogs have practically nothing in common with wolves. I was never quite comfortable with the dog-as-tame-wolf idea, but didn’t know why until I read Alexandra Horowitz’s Inside of a Dog.