Pitting my idiot Ex-husband, dogs, and dog people. Long and rather pointless.

The BBQ Pit
1

Warning: Long and rambling.

Not to blow my own horn too much, but I know dogs pretty well. I’m not the dog whisperer, perhaps, but I do know how to read them, take care of them, etc.

IMHO dogs are like ski slopes: There are bunny slope dogs. Dogs that will always be happy family members, never questioning their role as lowest on the family totem pole. Then there are beginner, intermediate, and expert dogs. Expert dogs can quickly become monsters if they’re not raised, trained, handled, etc. etc. correctly.

Basenjis are on the intermediate/expert side of the doggie scale. I have a soft spot for Basenjis and in my life have had 3. Because I know how to deal with them, my Basenjis were very nice dogs. My ex-husband grew to like them quite a bit, too. He never gave me credit for their training or how they turned out. He was pretty oblivious to what went into raising them actually. I did the “I’m the alpha dog” thing with them a time or two (placing them on their back and not letting them up until they exhibited submission) as they were growing up. Ex-hubbie learned about it from seeing me do it. He did not appreciate that I had done it with my dogs since they were little puppies, and that the dogs basically felt safe around me and didn’t really feal that their physical safety was threatened by my doing it.

So, to make a long story even longer - for some unknown reason my X’s family (X, new wife, her 2 kids at that home, my kids there every so often) decide to get a Basenji. A free Basenji - which is to say a 4-year-old male who was rescued and needs a new home. The dog was supposed to be non-aggresive, sound of mind and body, etc., etc.
BUT…
Can I just say right here that it is EXTRMELY dicy to rescue any intermediate/expert breed of dog

There was a long family visit by the rescue lady. The family “passed” and they drove from Indiana to St. Louis to get their dog. That was this Friday.

The X mentioned to the person who did a house visit that he had experience doing the dominance role thing to keep dogs in their place. The rescue person told him that doing that to the dog he was going to get wouldn’t be a good idea. My X, being the type of person who knows everything about everthing, blew that warning off.

They got the dog on Friday and he seemed great for a few hours, till X wants the dog to get out of his way and the dog wouldn’t move. “Aha” thinks X - time for the old dominance role. He flops the dog on his back and grabs him by the neck. Instead of acting all submissive, rescue Basenji goes nuts. He attacks and bites the crap out of X’s hands. X goes to hospital, dog gets locked in bathroom. “Medics” (the new wife’s term) tell her to “quarantine” the dog. This is related to me by X’s new wife. She called because they didn’t know what to do with the dog. I told her to keep him in his crate or on a leash.

Then today my daughter finds the dog in her bathroom eating Q-tips. (Which is to say they didn’t follow my advice, either, and let the dog loose in the house). Without thinking she graps the Q-tips out of his mouth and gets bitten for her troubles.

Bottom line - dog is going to be put down in 10 days (assuming he doesn’t die of rabies first - not very likely).
Damn my stupid ex-husband for thinking he knows this all about dogs, and not taking the advice of the people who do dogs for a living.
I also have to pit the rescue lady, who, it now appears, was so desparate to get rid of the dog that she claimed it didn’t act aggressive when his food was removed, had great manners, etc. None of that seems to be true.

While I know the dog was probably damaged and was going to end up having his life shortened due to his behavior, the entire dumb chain of events just makes me want to scream.

2

Man. That’s awful.

There are some pretty bad people in rescue, out there. What a horrible thing to have happen. I hope your daughter’s (and yeah, the ex too) wounds heal fast. Dog bites hurt. If the rescue lady works with a rescue organisation, you should bring this up to their attention. They may have some liability.

Regarding Alpha rolling… I highly recommend no one ever attempt it, unless they know what they’re doing. Ever. A submissive dog can flip out when rolled. An aggressive dog can flip out when rolled… and your face is right where you can get seriously hurt.

3

Rotten luck my friend. Best of luck staying cool at this trying time.

4

Christ Jesus, what a dumbass situation! I can’t believe anyone would let ANY new rescue dog roam in a house with children unsupervised!

I’m a believer that there are no “bad” dogs (unless mentally disturbed, of course) just bad owners. Some dogs become “bad” because of their owners, who had the best of intentions, but just didn’t know what they’re doing when it comes to “problem dogs.”

That dog might have done well in a child-less home with an owner who was equipped to deal with him and understood canine behavior. I think it was probably irresponsible of the rescue people to put him in an average home with people who just wanted a cuddly pet, and weren’t aware of what the dog needed and dedicated to helping him with his issues.

5

From what little I know, Mrs. Plant being the dog trainer, I’d agree with that.
It’s a shame.

6

In fairness to the rescue person. I heard through the grape vine (i.e. my kids) that X didn’t come across as Mr. Average Pet Owner. He talked this great story about how he had 3 Basenjis in the past and knew the breed etc. etc. etc.

Somehow it slipped his mind to mention that his ex-wife (the one with the veterinary degree who actually trained the animals and showed them in breed, obediance and lure coursing) may have had some input there as well.

7

Hope your daughter’s ok.

It’s a shame about the dog but I wouldn’t take in a four year old basenji either for the reasons you mentioned. Well-raised Basenjis are awfully cool but what they learn in the puppy years makes all the difference.

Not all dogs respond well to the alpha roll. Some dogs, you could cut off their heads and they wouldn’t submit. I tried a roll on a lhasa apso once - she was a year old stray. Big mistake! She wasn’t going to stop fighting and I couldn’t let her go.

I think alpha rolling can work if, like you say, you start with a puppy, but it’s not the best choice in all situations. These days I prefer clicker-based training where the goal is clear communication rather than trying to force or intimidate the dog into doing something.

8

What purpose does the clicker serve? Is it a reward, does it serve to get their attention?

9

The clicker is used by first just clicking without any behavior, and following with a reward. Once the association has been made, the clicker is used to reinforce a desired behavior, and is followed by a reward (treat, toy, play, etc.) The advantage over just giving the treat or toy is that the clicker is instantaneous, and can catch the behavior before the animal forgets what he is being rewarded for. Using a clicker successfully requires the handler to focus very closely on the animal’s behavior.

10

The reason a clicker works is that you can make the noise at the **exact same time ** the dog is doing the desired behavior. So they can make the association between what they are doing and a reward much more quickly than if you use some other means of positive re-enforcement (most of which, if not all, are associated with a time lag).

First you get the dog to figure out that clicker = treat. Then you click when the dog is doing something you want it to do. Pretty soon, the dog starts doing things trying to get you to click. Training happens because the dog is seeking a way to please you, not because it’s afraid of punishment.

FWIW, it works with just about every species to greater or lesser extents. I know of goats that have been clicker trained to retreive dumbells and roll over.

At work we always joke about clicker training the tech.s in pharmacy to see if we can get them to speed up.

11

I wonder if it works with Mods…

12

Only in conjunction with large quantities of chocolate, I’d imagine.

13

Well, yeah, but it’s CLICK chocolate CLICK chocolate and eventually just CLICK will get results until I have money to wire Godiva’s.

14

Make sure you send the dog to the “Rainbow Bridge.” :rolleyes:

15

What is the “alpha roll”?

My dog is a bunny-hill sort of pooch so I’ve never had to do anything to get him to submit other than give him the mother-look.

I could give him raw meat, and then put my hand in front of his face and say “give” and he would just open his mouth and give. It’s wacky, really.

16

That’s grabbing the dog and flipping them on their back when they aren’t being properly submissive.

It’s a natural behavior of dogs during dominance struggles…they’ll fight until one gets the better of the other and the submissive dog will end up on its back. This behavior likely evolved from the way puppies behave towards adults when they beg for food…the submissive dog will often lick the face of the dominant dog, like a puppy begging for reguritated meat.

We have a chow/husky mix that we dominate this way when she gets a bit feisty or exhibits the slightest hint of aggression toward a person. She definately doesn’t like it, but she calms down right away afterwards. But I’d be scared to try it on her if I didn’t know her…you never know how a strange dog is going to react. She knows that I’m the boss of her and I just need to remind her every so often. A strange dog might decide I’m not so tough after all and try to put ME on my back. Anyway, the idea is to work with a dog’s natural dominance and submission behaviors instead of expecting them to figure out human behaviors.

17

So it’s not when I roll my dog on his back and rub his belly? 'Cus he really seems to like that.

18

Well, it is, in a way. That’s your dog demonstrating his submissiveness, and the fact that he’s comfortable with you being in charge, and so can enjoy physical contact while he’s on his back. If a dog is dominant, you’re not going to get access to his belly in the first place.

19

Man, the whole thing sucks! And at times like these it is wise to focus on the bright side. That being: he is your"ex"-husband.

20

And to the OP, that sucks. I hope your husband realizes that his foolishness has led to both his and his daughter’s injuries, and to the needless death of an innocent dog.

I love dogs, but it will be a long time before I own one, because I recognize I don’t have the time to devote to properly training and socializing it. Threads like this should be required reading for anybody who decides to impulsively acquire a dog.