I have a close friend whose car is badly in need of a new muffler. Every time I ride with her, I am dizzy and have a slight headache.
Is this the effect of carbon monoxide seeping into her car or purely psychological on my part? I urge her to get the muffler repaired before she falls asleep at the wheel and never wakes up.
I have exhausted myself trying to convince her, can anyone illuminate my friend? How dangerous is a faulty muffler?
I’m not a mechanic, but this sound serious to me! Can you smell exhaust inside the car? Although carbon monoxide is odorless, the exhaust contains other things that do smell… I would keep on trying to convince your friend to at least have a mechanic look at it.
Indeed you can smell the exhaust. And a mechanic is not needed, Midas will put a new muffler on her car for $25.99 she is sitting with me now reading these posts, keep 'em coming, I’ll convince her yet!
BTW: “I have exhausted myself…” I get it! Hehehehehehehe!
If she’s right there, smack her in the head and tell her to go get a new muffler! (OK, don’t smack her… we don’t want any violence…)
BUT, I had a friend who got a new muffler at one of those cheap discout places (not sure which one) a few years ago, and he’s had nothing but trouble with it ever since… it keeps rusting out on him, and he has to replace it about once a year! This is odd, because he lives in San Diego (no salt on the roads in the winter). The muffler shop, IIRC, replaces it for free, but it is a pain in the butt for him…
Tell your friend she is going to die if she has an exhaust leak and does not fix it. OK, that’s too extreme. Tell her that if she does not die, then she will likely suffer cumulative, permanent brain damage. I mean, there are better ways to lose brain cells (drinking comes to mind) then sniffing CO in your car.
If your face (or your friend’s) looks rather red after driving for a few minutes, it’s probably not just psychological.
Get her one of these. It’s a clip-on CO detector. If she won’t believe you, maybe she’ll believe it.
The exhaust leak may not really be at the muffler, but at some point nearer the engine–perhaps at the manifold or near the catalytic converter. Just replacing the muffler may not fix the CO2 problem. Go to a reputable muffler shop and have them do a complete check on the exhaust system. Chances are good that the car needs more work than anticipated, but it’s worth it if saves you from a serious accident.
I’m not a doctor, but that sounds exactly like the first symptoms of CO poisoning (and anoxia in general). You’re dizzy or lethargic because you’re not getting enough oxygen. This obviously wouldn’t improve driving ability. Also, lack of oxygen causes the brain to swell slightly, causing the headache.
Skip the CO detector. Get the frickin’ exhaust fixed NOW!!!
Maybe I am missing something but can someone explain to me how the exhaust gases would get into the car cabin? I cannot see how a bad muffler is going to make much difference. If the car is moving the gases would be left behind and even if it is not… you sit in traffic jams all the time with your windows open and the exhausts of the cars around you… i’m not saying it’s healthy, just that I cannot see how a bad muffler can kill you. Can anyone provide any instances of people who died or even got sick from a bad muffler case?
if the exhaust is getting in the car its probably coming out of the intake manifold and going right through where the shifter is (if its on the floor, if its not, it coming on some where under the dashboard) and thats a lot more work to be done then just a muffler replacement. Im not an expert (yet) but that is a serious problem, and you should get your friend to get it to a shop asap. for now make your friend drive with the windows open.
and just remember, if you have any other questions, i am MECHANICHIK!!! WOOOOO!!! (sorry, Ill stop now)
From Sailor:
Most cars have a series of louvres or similar vents between the front windshield and the hood. These are the intake vents for the heater and air conditioner (and by the way, if you keep those moldy leaves cleaned out of them, you just might not sneeze so much). If, as Guy Incognito suggested, the exhaust leak is farther forward at the exhaust manifold, the carbon monoxide would be sucked directly into the cabin. Opening the windows would help some, but who is going to be driving that way in November? Tell her to have it fixed tomorrow if she expects to have any turkey next week!
>> I am a mechanic. And a Mechanical Engineer
>> Tell your friend she is going to die if she has an exhaust leak and does not fix it. OK, that’s too extreme. Tell her that if she does not die, then she will likely suffer cumulative, permanent brain damage
Well, maybe what we need is a doctor rather than a mechanical engineer. I believe CO poisoning is not cumulative.
At any rate, I’d like to know of any known examples of people who have suffered death or injury because of this. I have a feeling the other posters are exagerating the risks. Note that I am not saying it is good or no risk, just that I doubt she will die or is in any grave risk.
Gotta agree with Sailor, I’m also pretty sure CO poisoning is not cumulative, but still why take a chance? It is poisonous, and it IS getting into the car one way or another… if it’s serious enough to cause a headache, it’s serious enough to fix!
(Astro lights a cigarette, gulps some beer, and wonders why these foolish people take such risks!)
Hey - before you all start dogging on me, maybe what is needed instead is a good reading of my post. I said she could suffer cumulative damage. Please show where I said the poisoning is cumulative. I know CO poisoning itself is not cumulative in the very long term, but the damage from repeated exposure is cumulative. According to Toxicology by Casarett & Doull:
also, (referring to CO and HCN exposure on the nervous system)
It goes on to say in this section (paraphrasing) that survivors of CO poisoning may develop lesions in the CNS that are characteristic of global hypoxic or ischemic injury, and that this is the major cause of CNS damage.
Also, regarding cardiovascular effects,
Of coure, this is just from the one reference on poisons I happen to keep next to my PC. I’m sure you can find many other references which show that exposure to CO poisoning causes cumulative damage (such as the EPA, or American Lung Association, I imagine…)
And as to the other point - do you really need an explanation of how exhaust gases get in the car cabin? Have you never smelled you own exhaust from within your own car before? I know I sure have, on many occasions due to a leaky exhaust system. Sure the muffler is in the back of the system. But in the OP it says that he is getting dizzy and has a headache every time he rides in it. It’s not really that big a stretch to guess that if the muffler needs replacing, other parts of the exhaust system might be old, cracked, or corroded as well - such as the front catalyst, downpipe, etc.
People die from carbon monoxide poisoning. Yes, it is very unlikely in a car - hence my adding “OK, that’s too extreme.” in my post. It’s still serious, and not good for you. And it’s such a simple thing to fix. Is anyone actually suggesting that until they see proof of a risk of serious short-term injury there is no business case for replacing or repairing a leaky exhaust system? That certainly sounds like a hard position to defend, if you ask me.
I have known someone who lost consciousness while driving due to an exhaust leak. The level of C02 caused them to lose consciousness. They were driving on the highway and going about 60 miles an hour. They crashed and were killed.
This is a serious problem and needs to be fixed.
Anthracite, I agree CO is bad for you, I am just trying to put some perspective on this. Not everybody has unlumited amounts of cash for car repairs and IMHO this is something which can be managed if you just ventilate.
I think you would have to have a pretty bad case of CO poisoning to suffer any permanent damage which would accumulate. CO prevents the red cells in the blood from transporting oxigen to the rest of the body. As long as you have enough red cells left you should not suffer any consequences.
I have a hatchback and I can definitely smell the exhaust gasses in the cabin when I drive with the hatch open. I soon get a feeling of sickness to the stomach. I am just careful.
When I had a bad muffler I knew the gases were not going through it because I could hear them coming out before the muffler but I never felt I was breathing any exhaust fumes. I felt this was a very manageable risk which did not require spending $200 to repair. Unfortunately, it would not pass inspection and so I had to repair it.
Note that cigarette smoke also contains CO in addition to other unhealthy compounds. Smoking several cigarrettes a day is probably worse to your health than driving a car with a bad muffler.
tevya, I would be interested in knowing about that case. Can you give us more details? Date and place, car model, name of the person etc? I would like to know more.
Name: Tim Taylor (of the Ohio band Brainiac)
Date: 5/23/1997 (age 28)
Place: I beleive it was on I-75 or I-71 between Cincinnati and Dayton Ohio but I’m not positive.
He was more a friend of my roomates (who was in the band Milkmine) than he was a friend of mine. I realize this makes the infromation somewhat questionable so I will try to get the details for you.
From MTV.com
"May 27 [12:00 EDT] – Tim Taylor, the lead singer for the fast-paced alternative rockers Brainiac died in a fiery single vehicle accident near his home in Dayton, Ohio early Friday morning.
His car left the road at a high rate of speed and collided with two poles and a fire hydrant before bursting into flames."
From: Urbanophile.com
“On a sad note, a couple months after this show, Timmy Taylor died in a car accident. He wrapped his 1978 Mercedes around a telephone pole at 70 MPH while driving home from a band rehersal. The official explanation is that his accelerator got stuck. Yeah, right.”
I had heard it was due to loss of conciousness from C02. According to the people I knew who knew him, he had been puting off having his car repaired due to lack of funds. This website states the official explanation (I don’t know their source), so I could be wrong.
From the North Carolina DMV Driver’s Handbook
I realize that this doesn’t prove anything, but it does seem like there must be at least a small risk or the NCDMV wouldn’t have bothered to mention it. I think it’s pretty funny that they suggest always driving with the windows open just in case you have a leak in your exhaust system.
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I happened to have the NCDMV Driver’s Handbook on my desk right now because I was going to get my NC driver’s license today. (My old Illinois license expired a couple years ago.) I don’t drive, or even own a car, but I wanted to get my driver’s license so I could do a little of the driving when my girlfriend and I take a road trip up to Chicago for Thanksgiving. So I studied the handbook and dropped by the DMV to get my DL this morning. Much to my dismay, I was not even allowed to apply for a DL without proof of automobile liability isurance coverage. So now I’m spending my aftenoon trying to get car insurance even though I don’t have a car or a driver’s license.
Ain’t that a kick in the crotch?
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