My hi-def upgrade story

LCD vs Plasma vs DLP…Tivo vs Comcast DVR…so many decisions. Here’s my story, which may hopefully be useful to any Dopers who are pondering the same decisions:

Our existing audio/visual needs were being met by a 10 year old RCA 36" console – a 4’ x 4’ x 4’ cube that weighs about 800 lbs. Attached to the cube are a cable box (with Comcast being our cable provider, with a digital premium package); a Tivo box (with lifetime support contract); a DVD player/recorder/VCR; and 4 video game consoles. So there’s lots of wires and cables and splitters stuffed behind the cube.

We were pondering the move to high def widescreen, and I’d done some preliminary research (Consumer Reports, Cnet). Lots of pros & cons for everything. We found ourselves in Circuit City on Saturday, and made a spur-of-the-moment decision to go for it. I was thinking DLP projection, maybe a Samsung; we wound up with a Sony LCD Projection, 50", to be delivered on Monday. (We were leaning towards projection, mostly because we’re not planning on wall-mounting this thing, so we don’t particularly care how thin it is.)

Now we needed to pick out a stand…this probably took longer than choosing the TV. We chose a stand that was a triumph of form over function – it’s an attractive cherry finish wood box with doors & shelves to put your components in…however, the doors being wood kind of renders your remote controls useless. We decided that we can deal with having the doors open when in use. So hooray…we brought home the stand (assembly required) and awaited Monday’s delivery.

Sunday morning, Beloved Spouse and I wake up with simultaneous cases of Buyer’s Remorse. We weren’t dazzled by the Sony’s picture, and couldn’t remember why we didn’t look more closely at plasma. So we hopped out of bed & went back to Circuit City. We checked out plasma (and were suitably impressed) and realized that we can drop down to 42" plasma for about the same price as the Sony. So we picked out a Panasonic (Beloved Spouse thought a looong time about going for 50" plasma, but it was $1000 more for those extra 8"…sanity prevailed.) and now we’re truly happy.

Monday (yesterday): I took the day off (technically, I was telecommuting, but at about 10% efficiency). My son and I assembled the stand with no problem; then I headed off to my local Comcast office to upgrade cable boxes. (Many new TV’s accept cable cards, so no box is necessary; unfortunately, ours doesn’t). This transaction took about 5 minutes; I signed up for an extra $5/mo, and they gave me a new box, component video cables, a remote and some misinformation (that I needed to call their 800 number to activate the new service…not true, as it turned out).

Problem #1: Tivo won’t connect to the new cable box – there’s no 9-pin connector on the back. The Tivo alternative involves some funky infra-red receptor cables that we threw out years ago. So I went out again to Radio Shack to see if they have anything like these cables – no dice. They suggested I order them from Tivo.

The TV arrives – early! Hooray! Our Circuit City salesman implied that the delivery people would at least plug it in to make sure it works; in reality, they set it down on the living room floor, said “sign here”, and took off. But no problem; son and I are A/V wizards. We went through some setup/configuration routines, and got connected enough to test a DVD (LOTR:ROTK), which looked *amazingly * good.

Then I went back to the Comcast office, with new cable box in hand, and told them about my Tivo connection issue. The Counter Guy said that they had a different model available, with some kind of pin connector in the back – this was unexpected good news. So I swapped boxes, and returned home with the *new * new box – but still no go; this new connector was not what our Tivo cable is looking for. So now we had to make a painful decision: it’s time to abandon Tivo.

This is painful…we *love * Tivo. We were early adopters, and turned all our friends & family on to the marvels of Tivo. We have no corresponding warm & fuzzy feelings about Comcast. But Tivo can’t record hi-def programming, so we knew we were going to be parting ways eventually…just not so soon. But what the hell. So I went back to the Comcast office, exchanged my new new box for a new new *new * box, with built-in DVR (a bonus…one less piece of hardware), and signed up for another $12/month. Came home and completed the wiring, Son & I wheeled the old, bulky & incredibly heavy TV out to the garage; and I sat back to play with my new toy. (And, for the record, 42" looks plenty big. 50" would’ve been ridiculous.)

Problem #2: can’t receive any premium channels. This is readily solved with a call to Comcast; they send a magic power off/reset through the cable, and HBO is returned.

Problem #3: as we’re fiddling around, jumping between lo-def stations and hi-def stations, and playing with aspect ratios (4:3? Justify? Zoom? Which looks better to you…?) I notice that the hi-def picture, while quite nice and better than the old TV, doesn’t seem quite…dazzling. I pressed the Display button on my new remote, and it says that I’m currently viewing a hi-def channel in 480p, which is not “high” definition. I played with the configuration menus, and wondered what the display was actually telling me (the Panasonic manual was just awful), so I called Panasonic’s 800 number. While on hold, my son the AV wizard said…“you know, I’ve got component video cables from the TV to the DVD player, but red-yellow-white cables from the DVD player to the TV. Could that be a problem?” Well, it seems that the quality is probably only as good as it’s weakest link…so we changed the cabling. Voila! And we were suddenly watching Red Sox vs Yankees in glorious 1080i resolution. And it was gorgeous.

The Comcast DVR…meh. It has dual-tuners, so we were able to record Prison Break and Deal or No Deal simultaneously, which is very nice. And the afore-mentioned hi-def recording is good. But otherwise, it’s worse than Tivo in every other functionality & friendliness way.

But we *love * the TV!

Congratulations on entering into the HD age!

Today is my birthday, so my partner and I finally took the plunge and ordered a 50-inch Pioneer plasma that I’ve been drooling over for, oh, a year. We are Tivo fans, too, and since I don’t have Comcast, I was feeling a bit worried about this. Tivo is set to release a High-Def version of their standalone box in the second half of 2006 (I hope this comes sooner rather than later) so since I refuse to leave Tivo behind, we’re sticking with our Series 2 box for now.

For those interested, it is indeed possible to get damn good picture through a Series 2 Box-- here’s a link from the Tivo Community Forums.

The tv will come at the end of the month (bought it online through an authorized reseller of Pioneer plasmas for a thousand bucks off). First thing we’re planning to watch: the LOTR trilogy! Wonder how many people do that?

Congrats!

Interesting! I couldn’t find any info on Tivo’s site as to whether or not a hi-def version was coming soon. Good to know; maybe we’ll switch back when the time comes.

Congrates on the new set up.

Is the DVR box from Comcast built by Motorola? If so, be prepared for problems. The firmware in this unit is notoriously buggy. You will probably be resetting the box daily.

About a year ago, Comcast announced that they struck a deal with Tivo to run Tivo software on the Comcast DVR (at additional cost above the existing Comcast DVR fee). I don’t know if they’re still planning to do that, but it could be the best of both worlds.

Yes it is…thanks for the heads up. How does one reset the box?

I have the Motorola box (Motorola 6412). I LOVE having a hi-def PVR, but this hardware is nothing but trouble. Among the problems you may run into:

  • the box resetting itself spontaneously from time to time. This causes the channel guide info to be lost, which takes hours or even days to fully restore.

  • A bug which causes the box to sometimes think the hard drive is full when it isn’t, causing you to lose recordings.

  • Stuttering on hi-def. I’m on my second motorola box (first one replaced by the cable company when it finally locked up completely). The first one didn’t stutter on live HD, this one does. It takes a full reset to get it to stop, and then it’s good for a week or two before it starts up again.

  • Recordings that end prematurely. The box will say it’s recorded a full hour, but halfway through you’ll suddenly get the ‘delete/don’t delete’ menu, and there’s nothing you can do to go any further.

  • Recordings that have long pauses in them, sometimes for up to a minute. Very annoying. On my old box, it started slowly and tolerably (the occasional pause for a second or two before continuing), and got progressively worse until the box was unusable.

Anyway, good luck with it. Some people seem to be lucky and not have any problems at all. On the other hand, a guy on another forum has gone through SEVEN of them in the past year due to various hardware failures.

You guys are harshing my buzz, man.

That’s unfortunate that you didn’t like it. The girlfriend has one of these guys purchased in Jan '05. I think the picture is pretty impressive. It’s a nice set and a pretty good value I thought.

The only way I know is to pull the plug, wait a minute or so, and then re-power. Sam Stone gave a great summary of the problems. I have heard of others as well, but those might be hardware issues with a specific unit.

The Sony was nice; but we were watching a movie in the store (and I couldn’t swear whether it was over cable or on a DVD), and I noticed some blurriness. Maybe we were too close, or some other environmental factor was happening; but we couldn’t shake the impression that we were compromising on picture quality.

Just a postscript, before this thread fades away, about Tivo… We have it connected to the new system, in “read only” mode – it’s not connected to the outside world; we can only watch what it’s previously recorded.

It’s amazing how we’ve anthropomorphized it. Last night, its red light came on, and my daughter said plaintively, “awww…Tivo thinks it needs to record something…that’s so sad.”

So what kind of connector were you using to connect the cable box/PVR to your screen?

I have a 23-inch HD monitor on my computer (true HD: 1920 x 1200 pixels resolution). It has one DVI connector, one VGA connector, one S-video connector, and one RCA connector for composite video. The computer is connected by the DVI connector.

I also expect to use this monitor as my TV display. Right now, I watch DVDs on the computer, but I can also connect my DVD player through the S-video connector.

I may re-subscribe to cable and get a digital cable box/PVR. Do these have DVI connectors? Is there such a thing as a DVI switchbox?

Reading on Wikipedia, I see that the HDMI connectors used by many components are a superset of DVI, containing not only DVI’s analogue and digital video signals, but also audio and control signals. I believe you can get HDMI to DVI cables as well.

Any advice?

When I said in the OP that I was an A/V wizard…I lied. I’m capable of ensuring that the right parts are connected to each other, but that’s about it.

But to answer your question, sunspace, as best as I can: yesterday we were using component video cables between the cable box/PVR (what’s the “P” stand for, anyway?) and the TV; but I just got a call from my son, reporting that he just bought and installed an HDMI cable for that purpose – and that the difference is noticeable (contrary to the opinion of Comcast Counter Guy.)

I think my cable box has a DVI connector…I’m not using it, so I’m not 100% sure.

If you’re using the Comcast DVR, you’ll like it even better once you add a thirty-second commercial skip button to it. If you do a websearch, you can find instructions for hacking it to add that feature.

Thanks, DF. I was surprised that it didn’t come programmed this way; I programmed my Tivo remote to do this, and thought I’d read that Tivo customers were unhappy that their remotes couldn’t do what cable DVR remotes could do.

I’d also like to have a 15 minute skip, which comes standard on Tivo.

I guess I’ll throw my 2 cents in here… I work for one of the two local cables companies here in San Diego doing technical support. I’m a tier 3 technician, which means that I deal mostly with internet connection issues; but I may have some insights into HD and DVR issues… so for what it’s worth (and keep in mind I may well be wrong on some of the details on HD tech):

Consider DVR and HD technology to still be in the “works pretty good, but still buggy as hell” category. We get software patches for the boxes from the manufacturers every once in a while, which we push out to the boxes during the very early morning hours, but they usually fix one or two issues while causing four or five more! :smack:

I’m ever hopeful that they’ll get all the bugs ironed out eventually (and of course they will, err… I think).

At our division we have Scientific Atlanta, Pace, and Pioneer boxes, so I can’t speak specifically to the Motorola box that Sam mentions above, but I believe that most of this advice will apply no matter what type of box you have.

Yup. It happens. How to restore the guide info: Reboot! Either unplug the box for a minute or so, or hold the power button in until you see the word “boot” in the time display (take 10 secs or so) then let the box reload the guide data. The whole reboot should take no longer than 2 or 3 minutes from the time you plug it back in/release the power button. If you have to do this more than once every few weeks, call your cable company… you may have signal issues or the box may need to be replaced. Alternatively, at least with the software our boxes are using, you can pull up the guide and scroll forward 3 or 4 days, which forces the box to reload the data to get the info for the guide in the future days (as well as current data).

Huh… I’ve seen this on occasion. Call your cable company if a reboot doesn’t fix it. They can (or WE can, anyways) reformat the hard drive on the box remotely. If that doesn’t fix it, replace the box. And keep in mind that I’ve dealt with many people who have replaced the box with brand new ones four or five times before they got one that worked reliably. It sucks, but there you are. (this, ironically, is an issue that I am dealing with myself… I recently upgraded to a HD TV and DVR myself, and I’m having the same issues that everyone else is having… but I can’t call tech support without losing face before my co-workers! :frowning: )

Again, reboot, if that doesn’t fix it, call your cable company and have them look at the signal levels on your box… if they’re good, reformat. If still no good, replace the box again. (seeing a trend yet?)

I don’t like the sound of this at all… call your cable company. Reformat. If the issue persists, and it’s not on their list of known bugs with their current software it needs to be. Replace the box. Raise a stink.

This sounds like a signal issue to me. It may be intermittent, so take note of how the tech at your cable company has you check it over the phone (for example, here in SD if you are using our services, channel 998 will take you to a screen where you can see the signals coming into and leaving the box… you want to look at both the FDC (foreward data carrier) and RDC (reverse data carrier). Your cable co. may vary, but in our system we want the FDC to be between 10 and -10 dbmv with 0 being ideal, and the RDC to be in the range of 40-50 dbmv give or take. Check it often, and note if the values fall outside the range the cable co. tech tells you is acceptable. These signal levels will vary a bit depending on various factors (time of day, temperature, etc.) but if they stray out of range it could be the source of the problem here. If signal levels are ruled out, then reboot, reformat, replace!

All of the above issues (as well as numerous others) may be on your cable company’s list of known issues with their boxes and/or current software… ask them, they’ll tell you. If so, there isn’t much that you can do, except possibly replacing your box with an entirely different make or model; just gotta wait until the box manufacturer releases a fix for the issue.

I just recently upgraded to high def myself (April 1 was my 40th birthday, and I got myself a new TV!), so I feel your pain. I have a Scientific Atlanta 8300 HD DVR, which I am connecting to the TV with an HDMI cable, and already I am gathering useful data for our digital techs to look at! :smiley:

Happy viewing!

(by the way, since I got HD, I have come to the opinion that Bikini Destinations may be The. Greatest. Show. Ever!)

PS: while I’m thinking about it: a DVR is NOT a long-term storage device… if you record something that you want to keep forever, please get it onto a video tape or CD/DVD! You WILL lose it when you inevitably have to replace your box!

“PVR” stands for Personal Video Recorder.

My DVR box is from Cox, but I understand they use the same hardware as Comcast with some slightly different software, so here’s something to try: while watching a recorded program, push the fast-forward button once. While the program is fast-forwarding, push the “right” button on the four-way menu selection dealie. The program should jump to the next quarter-hour mark (at least, that’s what it does on mine). Push it again to jump another 15 minutes. The same thing should work with the rewind and the “left” menu selection button.