My husband's about to lose his job (long)

In general, here’s how these things work:

You work 100%, and get paid 100%. You work 110%, you get paid 100%…again, 80%, you get paid 100%.

You work your everlovin’ ass off to get a bonus, keep up with expections, get those stock options, and the first time the bottom line looks wobbly, you get laid off. You give everything, get used up, and it comes to nothing, because AFTER you’re laid off, you’re worried about not having a job…then you have the stress of coming up to speed in a new job.

Um. The biggest failing here is not having enough respect for your OWN personal space and needs. He’s no good to you dead.

And there are MUCH better places to work. He shouldn’t quit…but he’s not beholden to more than 40 hours per…and a 30 hours per, could easily go 6 months before the HR performance crap catches up with him…or he loses his job through no fault of his own. (Which can be demonstrated as the company will be laying off more than just him.) An abusive work environment can be brought up as a decision item when determining eligibility for unemployment. You should probably research that for him. (as a sign of solidarity for his problem.)

Not finding much help on the Minnesota Unemployment site. The FAQ’s suggest that you are ineligible if you quit or are fired (I presume they mean for cause) and that you will need to appeal in that case. I can’t look at the application because it is after 6 p.m. What a bunch of crap.

I have tried to tell him that the long hours weren’t doing any good, and all he says is that it’s what they expect. He never leaves before 6 unless he is going to school, when he leaves at 5. He used to start at 7, but once the boss from hell showed up, he started working at 6–her idea.

I can’t wait until he is working someplace else. There just aren’t that many elses out there now. I feel the wolves circling near the door.

I know this all sounds like a big “I told you so”, but, well, I did. I tried. I know I should be more sympathetic, but it’s not coming right now. I’ve already apologized to him for that.

I think you need to start worrying a lot more about your husband and a lot less about his job. The poor guy must be miserable and it does not sound like you are helping matters in the least.

A some point an adult has to worry about where the next dollar is going to come from. Tamex has already expressed that she is resigned to his looking for a new job and thinks it will be best. While it is nice to think that a wife could be all rah-rah about a job swtch, in practical terms it appears they are going to be heavily stressed to deal without his income.

Sounds like it’s a lousy job.

By leaving, he may be doing the company a favor. If more staff follow his lead, it shows his superior is costing the company qualified personnel & possibly productivity. Just sucking it up doesn’t spur change.

Or not. But if it’s making him sick, it may be best to leave.

This. After my last post, I rethought it. She may be trying to force some people to quit, rather than have to pick someone to fire.

This is coming across as particuarly nasty and unsupportive. I recently lost a job (got fired) which I am still getting over. When I took the job I had a choice of two, and I chose it over my wife’s reccommendation. The first thing she said to me? I told you that you should have taken the other job.

For whatever reason, and I am sure he laid it out logically your husband thought this was the best for him and the family (and in my mind there is no difference) so please don’t throw it back at him now.

On the plus side, I also think HR is on his side - perhaps a chat with them communicating what has been said in this thread would be appropriate - after all that’s what they’re there for right?

This is coming across as particuarly nasty and unsupportive. I recently lost a job (got fired) which I am still getting over. When I took the job I had a choice of two, and I chose it over my wife’s reccommendation. The first thing she said to me? I told you that you should have taken the other job.

For whatever reason, and I am sure he laid it out logically your husband thought this was the best for him and the family (and in my mind there is no difference) so please don’t throw it back at him now.

On the plus side, I also think HR is on his side - perhaps a chat with them communicating what has been said in this thread would be appropriate - after all that’s what they’re there for right?

Right. Because the Big-3 automakers are a model of management success.

To quote Snoop Dogg, shouldn’t have told her that, you should have smacked her, Black.

There is a different dynamic between an abusive female boss and male employee than a male boss and male employee. With two men, there is the implied “if you continue to speak to me like that, I will punch you in the face.” Even though you can’t really. Crazy women bosses sort of take on the role of an abusive stepmom, shrill schoolteacher or shrewish wife. So the male employee is left helpless and impotent cowing to this lunatic skreetching at them.

I had a similar situation at my job. Not so much the hours, but my female boss was an abusive jerk. One time she berated be in front of the rest of the management team because my team had not provide some list of projects she thought I were supposed to provide. I told her this was the first I’d heard of it to which she started screaming at me that I had been there 4 months and “how I did I think these things get done around here?” In my stern “who do you think you are talking to bitch?” tone (kind of a cross between how you would speak to an unruly child and the tone and facial expression you might have if someone told you a dinosaur was in the parking lot eating your car) I told her “look [bitch]*! I have no idea how things get done around here [you moron] because at no time in the past 4 months have you sat [your fat ass] down with me as my boss and explained them [so suck it]!” Oddly enough, I barely saw her after that and she was nothing but sunshine. Then again, it could have been her Lithium cycle.

And then I reported the incident to HR, basically providing objective details, how it made me “feel” and a list of people who witnessed it. I also ran it by one of the directors in the room first to make sure he agreed with my perception of how things went down.

I also reported every incident that I witnessed her do this behavior to anyone else.

Here’s the deal. Big company’s tend not to fire people without cause and they tend to not like abusive managers creating potential lawsuits for them. Also, your husband keeping or losing his job is not really dependent on his ability to kowtow to her unreasonable expectations. If anything, it will appear as weakness and just trigger some sort of instintual “bitch” instinct and she will peck and pester him until he finally snaps.

My advice is as follows:
-Do every task she asks to the letter. No more, no less. Get instructions in writing and make sure they are clear. Don’t give her any excuse to get on your case.

-As there will inevitably be a time where she will fly off the handle because she wrote one thing but meant something else, don’t react to her tirades.

-Be firm and assertive. Don’t be like “oh I’m sorry” or “I can’t meet your expectations”. You can meet her expectations and it’s not her fault she can’t provide good coaching and guidance.

-Be the unbreakable rock of pragmatic male reason and logic. Focus on the subject and not her emotionally driven attempts to belittle or intimidate you:
“Do you even want to be here?”
“Of course, however I am trying to understand [subject].”

“I’m not sure if this is working out.”
“Well, that’s your decision, however [then focus conversation on the subject at hand]”

-Document everything. Whenever she acts in any way that is innappropriate and unprofessional, write down as much detail as possible, what was said, how it made you feel and who witnessed the exchange. Report it to HR in an email. Just say, you don’t really care what they do about it, you just want it on record.

-Look for another job. Tough to do with a full work schedule, part time school and a crazy boss. But definitely spend a few hours a week networking and sending out resumes.

  • not actually spoken but added to convey inflection

[hijack]This reminds me of a story my husband has from working the cafeteria. His bitch boss asked him to pan the hamburger buns. There were three pans that needed to be set out. The first one he did normally. The second was entirely bun tops. The third was entirely bun bottoms.

She threw a fit and bitched at him to ‘fix it’. He replied that he did what she asked and if she didn’t like it she could fix it herself, and continued with what he was doing.

Fortunately for him, no one else liked that manager either, so he didn’t get in trouble for it beyond that one chewing out.[/hijack]

I’ve two words for you: Constructive Dismissal. I don’t know how legal it is in America, but it sure isn’t over here

Not to sound crass, but do you have an update?

I don’t know anything about panning buns, but it seems to me (if his method was, in fact incorrect) that being intentionally obtuse and insubordinate is not a solution either. It gives your boss amunition to say “he refused to do what he was told” and “he has a bad attitude” which would be cause for termination.

As a generally rule, pitching a fit and screaming at employees usually doesn’t get much done. They just become resentful and passive aggressive.

Personally, I feel having it held over your head that you are about to lose your job is far worse than actually losing your job. At least with no job, you have the hope of a better job to look forward to.

Do you know if everyone there is working those hours? Does his group have to come in also? Is there some real or perceived deadline approaching, or is this just standard behavior?
I can refer you to a paper that shows that these long hours don’t offer any added productivity, but if the boss is being pressed by her managers to look like she is doing something, that isn’t going to help. If it is just him, then going to HR or just refusing to do the hours might be okay. If everyone is working these hours, it is almost impossible.

I worked on a sick project where pretty much everyone worked 8 am - 9 pm (dinner provided.) Not a lot got done after dinner, but statistics on dinners served proved we were working. One guy left at 6 for a car pool, and he was the sacrifice for the needed person to be rated unsatisfactory during the performance review. That was when I started looking for another job.
So, if this crap is the culture of the new company, there is nothing to do but leave. If it is only policy for one manager who is probably scared for her job, maybe something can be done.

Sorry I couldn’t get back to this thread sooner. He did not get fired. He did, however, get demoted to a non-management engineering position until such time as he can “prove” he can handle his old position. Whatever that means. I guess he’s got another meeting with HR so they can hash out all the details. Still under the head bitch.

He has no interest in reporting the bitch’s abusive behavior to HR. He also is considering not even doing the phone interview with his old company. And he didn’t come home until I reminded him of our daughter’s parent/teacher conference tonight. I just don’t understand it, I really don’t.

Except that’s not always true. If you have something due tomorrow, you may have to work until 9 or even later. You may be less productive on an hourly basis, however, you can still get stuff done. Maybe around 2 am your brain turns to mush where you can’t really do anything.

Besides the hours aren’t the problem. I had to work long-ass hours in my last job but no one had to scream at us to do it. It was understood to be part of the job and we were actually compensated for it (unusual in a consulting firm).

Does he not delegate tasks and takes everything on himself? That would explain why he got demoted from management and why he works so many long hours.

Maybe he didn’t want to come home and face more criticism and anger from you. Just a thought. Given that he is now pulling away from his old job prospect as well, I’d say there’s more going on than just this shitty job.

As someone who has been through the unemployment grinder, I want to suggest that you seriously examine some of your priorities. If a house big enough to consume your entire paycheck just for the mortgage payment is your top priority, then keep your mouth shut and let the poor bastard endure a never-ending hell so you can live in the house.

But if your husband and your family are paramount to you, then tell the poor man to quit his job and focus on his MBA. House in foreclosure? No biggie – so are hundreds of thousands of others. Let the lender choke on one more house. You will outlive the “bad credit rating” (who gives a shit anyway? When lenders start lending again, they’re going to be totally fucked if they only lend to “safe” borrowers.) Live simpler, live closer, live smaller. It will make you better. It will make your marriage better.

I’m speaking from experience here. My wife and I literally lost everything, including our retirement, savings, home equity, everything. Started all over again from scratch ten years go. Today, we are doing just fine, thank you, while the rest of the economy goes down in flames. We don’t live paycheck-to-paycheck because we live simpler, smaller and cheaper than ever before. The hardest part was walking away from the prestigious jobs, house and positions that fed our egoes. We’ve never looked back, and we’ve never been happier.