Are you sure?
My grandmother doesn’t tip much either. She doesn’t intend to be a poor tipper. She just doesn’t understand the amounts people tip these days. I’m not sure if it’s a matter of when she grew up or where, but, in her experience, tips just weren’t that large. Someone mentioned a $9 tip on a $91 meal–my grandmother would consider that a good tip. There’s really nothing we can do other than accept it and leave some extra whenever we eat out with her (and she only eats out with family members anyway).
There was a point where she was sending out a lot more than she could afford to charities (for her, it was various churches). We haven’t stopped her giving, but we have followed the suggestion of a previous poster that we help her set up a “charity budget.” She has a certain amount she can give each month and she decides who gets what out of that amount. That may not work for everyone, but she seems to like it.
And, for the record, I hate US restaurant tipping! I know it is what it is, and I leave good tips. (I’m not about to make the waitperson suffer because the system stinks.) But I still hate it.
I don’t buy this. In Canada, servers are paid minimum wage or higher, with no expectation that tips cover any gaps (although 10-20% is routine for service) and restaurant meals are significantly cheaper than in the US.
Because that’s the way it works over here. Don’t like it? Don’t go out to eat in the US. It’s that simple.
Well, 99.9% sure, since I know Lillith Fair’s husband, and he’s not Chinese.
No, it’s not that simple. What is simple is that we are dealing with a matter of opinion, between the customer and the establishment. Is it clearly stated on the menu or anywhere else that a 20% surcharge is mandatory? Is there a law saying you have to tip? I’m really asking because I don’t know. If there is I have no objections, even thought I believe it is a stupid system. And who gets to decide what an appropriate tip is? What if I want to give a bonus for good service? Should I tip twice?
The way I see it, and correct me if I’m wrong, the employers are taking advantage of the costumers (complimentary) tipping habit to pay less wages. Well, that’s really shitty and I’m not a charity so why should I be forced to make up for the difference? The waitstaff is entitled to a decent wage, according to the link provided earlier. It’s not my problem if their employer is screwing them over, even though I’m sympathetic with their situation.
If I’m not legally bound to tip, I’ll do it as a compliment but not because I have to, and I don’t care how much insult that will get me. Anything else is extortion and they can go screw themselves as far as I am concerned. I’m not from the US but if I were I don’t see what difference that would make.
Sorry for the highjack, seems like the thread is dying. If the OP would like this matter to be dropped I have no problems with it of course.
I can easily remember when in the US in the 70s and 80s that 10% was considered culturally standard…15% was for damn fine service, and 20% was throwing money around like a playboy. Why does everyone just shrug off “tipflation”?
Judging from this board, that 15~20% is the standard is mind-boggling to me. And someone even suggested that for bad service they would tip 10% to communicate their message of poor service. Unbelievable.
Wow. It is customer browbeating by the service industry, plain and simple, resulting from the business owner getting away with paying a sub-par wage. That our government sanctions this is even more amazing.
With few exceptions, this seems like a special case because someone happens to be carrying food. Other service industries don’t expect 20% (except for wedding event contractors, now there is an extortionist leech infested industry.)
I’ve done computer support contract work in the past, come to your home and fix your PC kind of stuff…this was pure service, plain and simple, certainly just as face-to-face customer relation as talking to patrons in a restaurant would be. I worked for a simple flat hourly rate and didn’t expect or accept tips. If I had ever implied that a tip was expected then I would have lost a customer and had a complaint to my boss.
Honestly, my instinct is to complain directly to a restaurant’s management if the staff implies they are expecting a tip. Not that I do complain though, being socially handcuffed by the custom here.
Why is carrying food special?
Why do you bother to eat out? Go home. Cook your own meal. Clean up after yourself. It’s that easy. Ain’t no law saying you have to eat out.
Let’s see, an hour or so to go to the store, buy ingredients, take 'em home. Another hour or so to unpack, put things away, start chopping those veggies, preparing the meat. Set the table real nice, like. Cook the meal. Serve it up so it looks real nice & appetizing. Get up and get yourself more water. Get up & get more wine. Heck, make yourself a gin & tonic. Ah, what a nice meal. Now get your butt off the chair & start cleaning up those plates. Wipe the table down. Clean the stove. Clean those dishes & pots & pans. Now, time to sit down and relax, maybe watch some TV… oops. Nope, dinner took 3-4 hours. Time for bed. Oh, well. I saved myself a 15-20% tip.
Tell me again, how much time you just spend, and how much did it cost at the store to buy all those nice ingredients?
Here is what apparently a lot of you would like to see happen: You want a nice meal. You want nice service. You want the server to be happy he or she only gets to work 20 hours/week at minimum wage.
Go to McDonald’s. The kid, or the recent non-english speaking immigrant taking your order doesn’t give a flying fuck about you. If it weren’t for the cameras, they wouldn’t give a crap whether they washed their hands after using the toilet, they couldn’t care less whether they just picked their nose & now they’re preparing your salad. They certainly couldn’t care less whether you get your food now, or whenever they get around to it.
At a sit-down restaurant, your server has a strong incentive to actually be nice to you, under the tipping system. At minimum wage, he doesn’t give a crap. Get your own damn water. What I look like, your slave?
Oh, if I don’t want to give you good service, well the management should just fire me. Go ahead. It’s a minimum wage job. I can get another one where I don’t have to pretend to be nice to your stuck-up ass.
I’ll get a nice cushy job at the quickie-mart. They’re hard up there. I don’t have to speak English. I barely have to know how to work the cash register, and even then, good luck getting the right change back. Better count it. Oh, and don’t complain to me that you’ve been standing in line for five minutes ‘cause I’ve been chatting on the cell phone with my drug dealer. Don’t like it? Go to Fresh Fields. I’m gettin’ minimum wage.
What, you still demand excellent, friendly service? OK. Come to my restaurant. I pay my employees the standard wage they need to make in order to keep a roof over their heads, pay for school and provide you with honest-to-goodness-genuine good service.
That burger now cost’s $30. Suck it up.
You could make that argument to justify tipping in almost any job.
Why do you bother to go to the grocery store? Go home. Grow your own food. Plant vegetables. It’s that easy. Ain’t no law saying you have to buy groceries.
Why do you bother to buy clothes? Go home. Make your own clothes. Learn to sew. It’s that easy. Ain’t no law saying you have to buy clothes.
Why do you bother to have your plumbing fixed? Go home. Learn to fix it yourself. It’s that easy. Ain’t no law saying you have to hire a professional plumber.
And yet, we don’t leave 20% tips for any of these jobs. Or for any other job except restaurant servers. What about that job makes it unique among all existant occupations?
Do burgers cost $30 in countries in which tipping is not standard?
No, mandatory tipping at restaurants is just a weird thing that has become so common we take it for granted. It is a bizarre system, but it is the one we have, so I always tip 15-20%.
I’ve been saying this for years. Waitresses at low-scale diners work just as hard (usually harder–you don’t have to deal with screaming kids or high people at an expensive steakhouse) as servers in upscale restaurants. Tipping by percentage is completely classist. Although, I guess that if you can afford to eat at a $50/plate restaurant, you can also afford more in tips than the average Denny’s customer. But still, such a system rewards people who happen to live in more upscale areas that can support nice restaurants and are physically attractive, and punish ordinary hardworking people who can’t say all the right things and be all classy but are still good servers.
Well, i agree with the part about the business owner getting the best of both worlds.
But there is a good economic reason for the “tipflation” that you are discussing here. The fact is that in the period that you are talking about, inflation has taken a much lighter toll on the cost of food, and on the cost of eating out, than it has on many other things that we have to spend our money on.
Former doper manhattan, whose job involves keeping track of changes in the US economy and their effects on business, explained it in this thread:
I don’t know what it really costs in other countries but I do know in countries where there is no tipping, the service is usually, stoic.
As an American, I prefer being shown a more or less good time while dining out, and I prefer to pay my server for that personal service.
I’ve noticed in Europe, people tend to sit there looking bored, eating their food. Don’t bother the server. Just eat and shut up. Product ordered. Product delivered.
I prefer the American way. I like eating out. I like pleasantly interacting with the server. He is serving me something I’m going to enjoy eating.
Dining out shouldn’t be like going to the post office. If that’s what you want, eat at the food court at Costco.
But it’s not mandatory. That’s the thing. Maybe it should be mandatory, but I’m not sure we’d like how the industry adapted.
help me out here with one thing. someone said don’t stiff the waitstaff if something out of their control impacts the total service experience you get. So, the chef screws up my order or I notice the dirty glass after drinking half a coke or something, I’m supposed to tip the 20% and further ruin my dining experience by trying to get the manager to give a discount.
IMHO the tip should also factor in the total experience I get from the ease of parking to efficient seating to quality of food, how I like the service, etc. Okay, let’s not blame the wait staff but change the dang minimum wage law.
Having grown up in a tipping environment then lived in a non-tipping environment, I much prefer the non-tipping.
disclaimer: I worked as a dishwasher for a couple years in High School and tips were only shared with the bus boys.
Well, then it’s like everywhere else in the world. Do you really think there is only good service in the USA? That’s completely disingenuous.
Once when I went to eat out in the US with my father, we went to this place in Manhattan. Got a regular service, no complains and in the end my father tipped 10%. The guy comes back with the bill and says “in this establishment it is customary to tip 15%” and just stands there. My father put in 15% but I would have just put 0% and told the guy to get fucked.
Sorry to hijack the topic further, but I’ve been serving for a few years now - started in grade 11 or so at a pub style restaurant, moved on to a fine dining restaurant, and now work in a bar/lounge type place. I’ll tiptoe through all the comments about servers and wages and whatnot, and just say: if I expected to be tipped 20%, 15%, or even 10% by all customers, I would have left the industry a long time ago. Some people don’t tip because you stopped by their table too often, sometimes they don’t tip because you didn’t stop there often enough. Sometimes the food was cooked improperly so they don’t tip at all - expecting me, who did not have anything to do with food prep, to be able to look at their steak as I’m carrying it out and be able to tell whether it’s medium or medium well. Sometimes you’re too friendly. Sometimes not friendly enough. Whatever, I can’t control that.
When elderly clients came in to the restaurant, I’d just assume they’d tip slightly less. As has been said, tip expectations have risen over the decades and not everyone knows this - sometimes elderly customers thought 5% was an amazingly high tip. I learned to expect it, treat the customers just as well as anyone else, and be pleasantly suprised if I got a higher tip. Your server might have been this way, or not. Who knows?
Where I work now, wearing a low cut shirt and giggling pretty much guarantees you a 20% tip. I refuse to play into this, dress in my own style and don’t act like an airhead, and am happy walking with 15%. The extra few bucks isn’t worthing selling out for, in my mind.
I make a decent wage, nothing spectacular, and considering how much work I do, it’s quite cushy. It’s getting me through university, so I can’t complain. Hope that adds a different p.o.v.
You honestly don’t think things in the US are, or should be like everywhere in the world do you? Why aren’t our children working in factories making tennis shoes? Huh? Huh? Huh?
I never said service is only good in the USA. Expectations of service in restaurants in the USA & everywhere else in the world vary widely, in part, based on our tradition of tipping, although not entirely. In Russia, I might expect a hire-girl to join me for my meal. That’s not actually included in the price of my meal. I don’t feel obligated to actually hire her. If I decide to let her sit at my table and pleasantly entertain me, should I stiff her because there’s no law saying I should pay?
Travel much? Different countries, different customs, different laws, different expectations. When I travel around the world, I try not to be an asshole.
In Europe you find yourself dining at a busy restaurant and you happen to be dining at a table-for-four by yourself or one other, it’s entirely likely another couple may be seated with you. At your table. You gonna bitch and refuse to pay part of your bill, because expectations are different in your country?
I kinda hope you don’t travel much.
In case you are not being obtuse on purpose, obviously I was talking about the custom of tipping. Sorry if I wasn’t clear about that. And I’ll amend my comment to Western Europe.
There you go using that word again, stiffing. If you hire her you pay her - the concept is simple. The business hires the waitstaff - not the costumer. You set up a huge strawman. A tip is a bonus, a way of saying “thank you for serving me (well)” and no way are you entitled to it. I’m not averse at all to tipping but it’s the entitlement that irks me.
Yeah, yeah. If I lived in the US I’d think the exact same thing because it is about the principle. Your custom is the same to mine, you just said so, tipping is not mandatory. Think what you like of me. When some guy is standing there with that attitude “pay up 15% or else…” I tend to get pissed.
Come on, don’t be ridiculous. And yes, since you mentioned, if the waitstaff doesn’t ask for permission first I will bitch about it. Not because of the expectations in my country though.
OK.
Because the government taxes them on their tips-what they’re SUPPOSED to get.
If you don’t like it, then don’t eat out in the US. Seriously. And if you do, don’t keep going back to the same place-they remember the non-tippers and the shitty tippers and your service will DEFINITELY reflect that.
I’ve often seen a statement on the menu to the effect of “a 15% gratuity will be added to the bill for any party of 6 or more customers” (percentage and minimum party size vary). This policy reflects the fact that diners may receive one check for the whole table, then have each person/couple/family “kick in” his/her/its share. It’s easy to forget (or deliberately fail) to add the tip amount when contributing your share. Even if eveyone remembers the gratuity custom, there are often arguments about whether each person should pay for what he/she ate, or if it would be fairer for each of – say, eight friends – to contribute 12.5% of the cost. And the kid who ordered off a hot dog off the children’s menu but got twelve free refills of Pepsi may have demanded much more of the waitress than did the guy who splurged on lobster but nursed one beer for the entire evening. Adding the tip as a de facto service charge ensures that the servers will eventually be compensated fairly for their efforts.
As you might expect, there’s no policy forbidding a tip above the minimum in such situations. However, there’s also the unwritten rule that if service is poor, a member of the party can speak to the manager and – if his/her complaints are deemed legitimate – have the mandatory gratuity waived, or at least reduced.
As a former waitress, I can tell you that in some states waitresses don’t even make minimum wage! It is assumed by the government that they will make enough in tips to compensate for the low wages, and therefore minimum wage laws don’t apply. In the late 1990’s, I made $3.xx an hour in MA and I had friends in NY who made $1.90/hr. Minimum wage was $5.15. Full-time after taxes and deductions I made less than$65/week.
So here tips really are the waitstaff’s salary in many cases.