She is better off asserting herself than just taking it, true.
She is not better off if her parents stay out of it entirely so she can fight her own battles. My mother took that path and the beating and the bullying ecalated eventually to rape.
Teach her how to fight. Or have a qualified instructor teach her. Other kids will learn to leave her alone, once they find out she can “serve them up”.
To the post that said kids don’t hit the face… Wrong. When I was a kid, the face and head was a favorite target.
Not to hijack, but to answer your question…I have homeschooled our 12 year old son for the past three years. He attends weekly karate lessons with kids of all ages. He is also in Odyssey of the Mind, a creative competition which is open to private/homeschooled and public schooled children. This meets twice a week for now because it is getting close to competition time. The particular homeschool group we belong to has regular “Park Days” twice a week to meet with other homeschooled friends. There is a local enrichment school which allows homeschooled children to come in once a week or 5 times a week for special classes. There are field trips about every other week. Today we are going to one of the local courthouses. He has been before and is interested in seeing how things work. He is perfectly comfortable in a roomful of adults or children his age. He goes to weekly summer camps and meets more friends. He also plays daily with his neigborhood friends. There is no socialization problem.
So if someone punched you in the face and you went to the police, you’d have no trouble learning the only punishment they’d receive would be picking up some garbage on the side of the road for about 10-20 minutes?
My 11 y/o had a bully problem that ended last month. His school also has a zero tolerance policy. The problem is there needs to be witnesses. Seems there was a kid that had a significant number of kids cowed, so he never had any support when he complained about it. To be fair, the bully never got to the level of punching him in the face, but more of the petty shit building up to it, like slapping him in the back of the head, and being the lunch room shark. He’d come home and complain about how the teachers and prinicipals weren’t doing anything, my wife would go to the school to complain, rinse and repeat. We started tracking it.
Last month I told him next time hit him back. I also told him about the effectiveness of a good shot to the solar plexus or a good swift kick to the nuts. Two days later I got this call:
Asst Principal: Mr. Stuffy we’re going to have to suspend Stuffy2 for 3 days
Me: What’s happened?
AP: He assualted another child named Bully McAsswipe.
Me: Isn’t that the the same Bully McAsswipe that my wife complained to you about on this date, this date, this date and this date?
long silence
AP: Well, uhm, it’ll be a one day suspension, but I’d appreciated it if you’d talk to your son.
I almost bitched about that too, but figured it was a small price to pay.
Disagree but it would be a hijack to go further.
Kids are not miniature adults. They are children. These examples that equate kid scuffles with adult altercations are IMO ridiculous.
Good for you!
No, they aren’t, but a punch in the face is not just a “kid scuffle”. And do you honestly feel that 12 is too young to know that punching someone, in the face, is wrong, and that if you elect to do so, there will be serious consequences to your actions?
I don’t know about anyone else, but I learned in pre-school that it’s wrong to hit people. So I don’t understand all you people who say that at 12 years of age, one shouldn’t be expected to understand that their actions are wrong, nor should they be punished for them. In fact, they should be given free reign because “it builds character” or “pain is a part of growing up”.
Giving tacit permission to punching isn’t teaching either child a valuable lesson. To the bully you teach them that they can do whatever the fuck they want with no consequences. And to the victim you teach them that violence against them is normal and should be tolerated.
Why don’t you ask what hildea would do if his/her co-worker started a foodfight. Or smeared shit on the bathroom wall. Or mixed their chocolate milk with peas and pizza and dumped it all over the table.
As others have mentioned we’re talking about 12 year olds here. I can’t fathom how you can “hate the parents” when you haven’t spoken to them or heard their take on this or even their kid’s version of events. Here’s another thing- kids exaggerate, lie, and often times get things wrong. I’m not saying that this is the case with your kid, but keep your mind open to this possibility. And if it turns out that your kid was lying, would you want them to be open to a slander lawsuit as a coworker would be?
On preview: Mauvaise, no one is saying that it is OK to hit people, just to bear in mind that we’re talking about kids here and that this is fairly common (and common ! = excuseable). If it happened as described, the kid should be punished but the punishment you mete out to a 12 year old on the playground should be drastically different than the one given to a 40 yeard-old co-worker.
Jesus, could the OP be any more fucking hysterical?
“My kid got hit at school.” This in itself is not a problem. It happens to just about every kid at some time, and the parent’s job is to teach them that completely losing your shit and going into victim mode is not the right answer. You’re failing.
“More school lunacy.” Holy christ, where do you get this? How does “kids bullying each other” translate into “school lunacy?” It may come as a surprise to you, but this is normal (yet undesirable and punishable) behavior for kids, and it did not come about as a result of some kind of massive failure on the part of the schools. Your pathetic desire to find someone to blame notwithstanding.
“We decided not to homeschool little miss due to socialization reasons” [but at the same time, we plan to throw a hissy fit over anything bad that happens to her, thus preventing her from ever being properly socialized.]
Throw in a little “my kid would never tell me a distorted version of events that make her sound less at fault than she really was”, “my kid deserves special treatment in the form of an assigned teacher to watch her constantly” and “my kid’s contribution to this problem shall be overlooked while I find someone to yell at” for good measure and you’re a model hysterical parent.
Kids are hysterically afraid of bullies and the dangers of going to school. This is normal. Parents are supposed to recognize that this fear is generally overblown, and teach their kids how to deal with it. Being hysterically afraid yourself only strengthens their fear.
Most people aren’t saying that the puncher shouldn’t be punished. Many, like me, just think that involving the police over a single incident like this is going WAY overboard. At that age they do still have growing up to do, and non-police punishment is generally how we teach them how to act.
You have to protect your children, and make sure they are safe at school. That does not necessarily mean jumping down the throat of the principal, involving the police, and hiring a bodyguard for recess. Thus far, this story seems to be an isolated incident, and should be treated as such. Talk to the principal, talk to the child, and keep your eyes open for continuing problems.
Right on.
Small wonder the kid didn’t want to tell her mom about it. She knew she’d freak, whereas the kid actually seem to have some sense of perspective about it.
It definitely brought back memories of “who did this to you?”
And I wouldn’t tell because I knew mom would freak out.
Yes, but many people claim that kids need to ‘go through this’ to ‘build character’ and that it ‘prepares them for real life’. Now it may be true that in real life there is a teacher to call upon. But in real life you call upon the police and the courts to decide things. It is not the frontier any more.
Actually, I do think the idea of assigning a teacher as a bodyguard is going too far, even assuming the school would go along with it. That would only set her up for more bullying, probably the non-physical kind, since the teacher is watching. And besides, bullies are experts at doing their thing when authority isn’t watching. Say, in a crowded middle school hallway, where even if there IS a teacher watching they can’t be watching everybody at the same time, and if they are, all they see is kids talking and laughing. (The bullies, that is. I’m guessing their chosen victim isn’t laughing.)
One altercation, like this one, merits attention. Definitely. It’s amazing, though, how the victims always seem to get the blame. “You should have stood up for yourself.” Yeah, stand there and let the insult/hit me. “Don’t react and they’ll stop.” Don’t react and they’ll up the intensity until you have to.
Oh, the lawsuits I could file if somebody treated me now the way those animals did then.
Greenback, Mojo: Thanks. I feel like I’m banging my head into a wall here. Perhaps I might as well stop.
Which thread have you been reading? Who has said anything like that?
To echo hildea above, who said that? I sure didn’t.
This thread, but maybe you missed such comments as:
The words “unless it is happening repeatedly” lead me to the conclusion that Rune doesn’t see an issue if it was a one time thing. It’s not big deal - it’s an “essential” part of growing up.
Here Arwin intimates that pain (in this case, being punched in the face) can be “very beneficial”.
Everything in moderation - meaning that single incident are ok and are part of a valuable life experience? That’s certainly the reading I get from that. I was always taught (without being hit first, mind) that you do not tolerate being struck, not even once. Not at any age.
And what hlanelee meant by biting us on the ass (in their example) was being punched in the face.
Trunk, at least doesn’t say it’s good for kids, but also dismisses it as no big deal.
Of course then Trunk has to be an asshole and blame the victim of repeated bullying for the long-ranging issues that can come of it.
Which doesn’t really fit in this accounting, but pisses me off.
And of course, your own comments. You agree that it’s “wrong”, but you also dismiss that the mother or child should be upset because, hey, it was only once. And hey, it’s just a punch in the face - a fitting punishment wouldn’t be a suspension, or expulsion, but merely a “mild” punishment of picking up trash for a recess period (10-20 min). You also say that sometimes you see no other solution than to fight.
Not having serious consequences to punching someone in the face (and I’m sorry, picking up trash, or being “talked” to is not a fitting punishment for assault, I don’t care if the kid was only 12) leads the child to learn that his actions don’t have serious consequences. So at 12 he learns that if he punches someone in the face it’s no big deal and he may have to pick up some trash for a few minutes, but then as an adult, when he does the same thing - he’s tossed in jail (and rightly so). How was his “mild” punishment teaching him anything for later in life?
As for the victim - if the see their bully get off pretty much scot free, what does that tell them? It says that they aren’t important and that what happened to them is of no importance. So later in life when they will actually have recourse against violence, they’ve been taught not to speak up because nothing will happen, except maybe more violence.
Given that we don’t nearly have enough information about the event, and what little we do have has been provided by one person who wishes to paint themselves in the best possible light, which was then fed through a hysterical parent, I feel that it’s premature to judge with certainty what happened.
I really think that there’s more to this story than is being let on, however.
I wonder if the schools are too afraid of lawsuits or somesuch that they won’t take disciplinary actions. When I was in elementary school, a boy was expelled completely from the school just for something he said. Nowadays they just tell the kids to talk to each other. A neighbor of mine’s daughter was thrown to the floor a few times and kept being made fun of for her physical appearance and was told it was partly her fault for reacting to it. They could insult her, but she was not allowed to say or do anything back.If someone hit her, and she afterwards hit back, she would be in trouble. So the teaching was Take abuse, and don’t ever defend yourself or you are wrong.
I think the system has gone crazy myself.
I really am not sure what happened here? The details are kind of hazy. People keep saying lil’ ggurl got punched. I saw no mention of that…did she make a run throught the gauntlet and damage her glasses by being overly physical and incidentally get scratched that way? Did a boy actually hit her?
I can certainly understand your stress and anger, this sucks any way you look at it.