My kid got hit at school.

The BBQ Pit
81

[QUOTE=catsix]

You know, this and the situation the daughter of the OP was in brings up a question, at least for me.

What exactly IS a child supposed to do in this situation?

Like so many on the “it’s good for them” side have said, it’s just a part of growing up. Well, yes but what would be the harrassee’s alternative?

If they just stand there and take the verbal and emotional bullying, as others have said, they get known as an easy mark and just get bullied more. If as other posters have said, they push back first, they get hit, but at the very LEAST they get to (we hope) get left alone after that.

It’s just unacceptable that those two measly choices are it. And what’s even MORE unacceptable is that no one seems to want to take the responsibility to try to come up with any alternatives.

Yes the parent is ultimately responsible for the parenting, and teaching the child the right and appropriate ways to behave in society. But the schools DO have them for 6-10 hours a day (sports, after school activities) for them to just take a “kids will be kids” stance and ignore it in most instances is just wrong.

In reading different books by sports personalities, writers and other “human interest” type stuff, I’ve noticed that for some, they were able to deflect bullying by neither just quietly accepting it NOR turning to violence. For many they used humor or intelligence to “turn the tide” so to speak.

So it can be done, and there are other alternatives. Why aren’t the schools taking more of a stance on teaching these social skills to kids early on. Way before they reach the age, and size, to be able to really cause physical and/or psychological damage to each other?

82

grrr…damn it. The above quote in my post was from catsix not Aanamika.

83

Ah, I see that you did mention that a boy actually punched her after rereading your second paragraph… Seems like this kid needs a visit to the principal.

84

I’m not going to go on about the rightness or wrongness of what has happened, but the point is, what do you think is more likely to help your girl? If you solve all of her problems for her, or if she solves them for herself? Obviously there are some problems that can be solved, but if you encourage her to solve them herself, it will do immense good to her sense of self-esteem.

Please read that Psychology Today article. I think it is something that all parents should be required to read, as I see these problems cropping up in my sister’s son, and almost anywhere you look nowadays. All you have to show her is that you love her, and sometimes that means letting her get hurt while you support her. If she can’t handle that, then you can take action, but don’t jump the gun when it is possible for her to solve her problems herself. This is an important part of growing up that is being taken away by this “hothouse parenting” to quote that article. Try and let her make the complaint known to the teacher or principle before you do anything. Although she may get some scorn for doing that, it would be better than having you do it. Because if they make fun of her for telling the teacher, then she will see that it was her deciscion and not something that you are doing for her. This will enable her to take action on her on a lot easier later.

But why are the boys picking on the girls? When I was a boy playing at recess, I don’t remember that happening. I was in the median, I guess, not seen as weak or as a bully. But I had to face bullies on a couple of ocassions.

But give her a chance to solve her problems herself while you offer love and support. Unless she seems to think that it is your responsibility to solve these problems, then she will be okay.

But after rereading your post after thinking about this, I see a dangerous situation. I mean, she was embarassed to mention it to you or anyone else. She seemed to take some initiative, and was quite brave, in my opinion to push one of those guys. Its probably too late for you to allow her to deal with these problems herself, because you feel it is your duty to make the world safe for her.

People have to learn at some point that life isn’t fair. If you try to correct everything that isn’t fair in her life, then one day, when she gets in the real world, she’ll have a much harder time dealing with it. You aren’t going to be able to help when Johnny, the cute guy, doesn’t pay attention to her, or stops calling her after one date. You can’t help when she doesn’t get that job she wanted.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe she wanted to take care of the problem herself? I am sure that’s why she didn’t want to tell you because it seems like she was trying to avoid the reaction you had. I mean Jesus! Taking pictures?! That’s only going to hurt her, if you show photographic evidence and protection from the bullies. It will only stunt her development.

So read that article. I am not saying that bullying is a good thing. It sucks and I’ve seen it. I’m sorry that you were bullied, but the fact that you weren’t given the correct ways to cope with problems doesn’t make it beneficial to completely remove them from your kid’s life. Your parents should have given you support in solving your problems yourself. Even if that means going to the teacher. I think your kid was trying to solve her problems and didn’t want any attention from you. If you let her know that you are there for her when she needs help with those sort of things, and help her out in a way that still lets her know that she has the power to ask for your help, then things will work out better. But if you completely take away her ability to solve her problems anytime one comes up then… well, I don’t suspect things will turn out well.

85

Much of the time what can be done by the victim in those situations depends on what has gone on in the past and if the bullies have grudge against her or are just picking on her because she seems to be an easy target. It also depends on the personality of the bully, whether he will stop if the mark doesn’t seem easy or take it as a personal challenge to be met and squashed. Unfortunately, what will work in some situations may make others worse.

86

No damn kidding. Homeschooling is tantamount to abuse in my opinion - but twelve is way too old for this kind of “roughhousing”. It’s one thing for kids to hit and kick when they’re seven or eight, and simply don’t have the physical strength to do much damage. But at 12? That’s seriously not normal behavior; something needs to be done about the aggressor. They’re old enough to act out some bizarre semblance of adulthood, and it’s fair to expect them to.

Does this happen a lot? Is there a group of kids who’ve assaulted your daughter frequently? Does your daughter know if they do this to other kids? The entirety of the situation would be interesting to know. I wonder if there’s a pattern of those kids as tormenters (there usually is in these sorts of situations) and if so, do raise some hell with the school because children, frankly, are out-and-out savages; some roughness is fine but when they start forming tribes and attacking one another, they need to be stopped.

On the other hand, if this is a one-time deal, well, ggurl, short of your idea of having a teacher play bodyguard (start preparing now to explain it to the shrink when she’s older and has developed a nice spectrum of neuroses), stuff happens. It may not be great for the kid - I don’t personally believe physical injury is necessary for a kid to grow up - but the alternative of not being allowed the slightest freedom from adults is far, far more dangerous.

No, she should not be homeschooled. Do you know what would happen to the kid’s psyche if she were exposed to this constantly? Don’t get me wrong, ggurl sounds like a good mother - but a mite overprotective, I think. It’s not good for a kid to not have the freedom to be away from their parents.

I had seriously overprotective parents, and it’s experience that tells me that parents who try to somehow create the perfect environment for their child are self-centeredly hurting the child. Don’t go too far in the other direction, or you’ll end up like hlanelee’s sociopathic father. But don’t try to live out your perfect childhood through your children, either.

And don’t fucking homeschool her. Fucking hell, that shouldn’t be legal.

87

I know I posted about this before, but I’ve tried to search for the post and couldn’t find it.

For the record, I personally have benefitted from being bullied. Same group of kids, from about 2nd grade up to 10th grade. Mostly name calling, shoving, not being picked for games (or picked dead last), taking my stuff and throwing it on the roof, over a fence, etc.

It all came to a head one day, back in 1978.

One of the bullies (now a wrestling jock) sat behind me in homeroom, at a parochial high school, squirting saliva on the back of my head and neck while the teacher was reading the school’s daily bulletin/notes. I gave him two verbal warnings to stop, but the constant snickering of his buddies approved his behavior and egged him on.

Until I snapped.

While the home room teacher was still reading the notes, I stood up in the middle of the class, grabbed Squirt Bully’s desk and proceeded to drag him (still sitting in his desk) out of the classroom…“We are going to take this outside, squirt boy.” Everyone stared at me in astonishment, even the other bully jocks. Of course, squirt boy was beyond astonishment, he was actually terrified that I stripped him of his bullyhood in front of another teacher and about 40 other students. I was actually doing the bullying (I have to admit this.) I have never been in this situation before, and I really didn’t know what was going to happen outside…and of course, I never did find out. The home room teacher (who did have some knowledge of the friction betweeen me and squirt boy) broke my tunnel-vision of a doe-eyed squirt boy, horrified and clinging to a desk. “Mr. Rex, will you please put Mr. Squirt Boy down.” I snapped out of it and replied, “Uh, sure Ms. Howatt.” She did not do anything beyond that.

The word spread quickly through school that day (my wife who was also a student attended that school and recalled hearing about it also)…“Yeti went nuts and was going to fight Squirt Boy.” Everyone else pretty much left me alone after that and my level of confidence went through the roof. I never did (and I still don’t advocate senseless violence) assume the role of a bully, although I was never targeted again by this group of guys. I became “unpredictable” in their eyes, and that’s not good for a bully. They rely on their targets doing the same thing…cower and give in. At our last reunion, most of these bullies ended up as losers in the long run, and others mellowed out over the years and joined the mainstream. I have maintained enough confidence throughout those years to be successful in life, and I can actually trace my confidence back to that day in high school.

In the here and now, that incident would never have taken place. (I would have been labeled the bully and the Squirt Boy would have been the victim.) Currently, my oldest son has been on the receiving end of a few blows on two occasions in high school thus far, but on both occasions, the other party got the suspension even though my son was slated for suspension as well. Nowadays, parents are called in by the principal or assist. principal to be informed about the incidents. On both occasions, we told the principal to look at where the bruises are for each kid…and only then can they see who was the aggressor and who was the defender. (I had taught my son how to block punches, kicks and chokeholds.) Each time, my son had bruises on his forearms, shins and a black eye or a bump on the head. The other party(ies) had bruises on their knuckles…one kid even had to ask the school nurse for a bag of ice for his hand! I then asked the principal (and the police officer, who is automatically called by the school) if they can identify with confidence who is the aggressor and who is the defender. Neither one had a problem identifying who’s who, and the other parties ended up with the reports and suspensions and my kid went back to school the next day.

What did we learn? Throwing a punch, even if it’s retaliatory, is not considered “defending yourself”, it is still considered aggressive behavior. Teach your kids how to block punches and kicks is considered defending yourself. I too, advocate that kids learn karate or judo so they can defend themselves and not get injured in the process, and also learn what the difference between defense and retaliation.

Retaliation is never considered as a form of defense…the sooner you know that, the better off you are…whether you are a kid at school or an employee at work, or out and about in public. Adapt to the rules I say. I know where Rune was coming from.

As for the OP, boys “bullying” girls is something entirely different. Sometimes, it’s not a case of bullying, but a case of misogyny, which is more serious in my POV. Not enough info to know where this falls. The OP should not shelter the child, but should tell the principal that she expects reimbursement for the glasses. The bullies record will eventually weed themselves out of the school nowadays. There is no need to take your kid out if she was actually trying to defend herself. Just teach her to do it correctly and stay in sight of a teacher if she feels threatened.

88

**
You fucking moron… just because you were able to stand up to a bully doesn’t mean most people can. Try telling that to the parents of kids who have committed suicide because of bullying. o_O

89

One thing I learned that you shouldn’t do is physically assault someone who is verbally bothering you.

After that I’d usually wait until someone hit me first and then lash out. At least that way I didn’t get in trouble at home.

And some learn to be really quick with the comebacks.

It went both ways when I was in school. Girls picked on boys, boys picked on girls, and both thought the other had cooties.

I don’t think knowing how to stand up for yourself is a horrible thing, though.

You and I had similar experiences, then. I got tormented until I really stood up for myself, and after that it wasn’t seen as worth it to try to beat me up because win or lose, I was going to do some damage to anyone who hit me first.

Self-defense has always been explained to me as ‘whatever action is necessary to get the assault to stop, and nothing beyond.’

If someone is pummeling you and you hit them one good time and make them stop, that’s not retaliation.

Maybe some (a lot?) of those kids were never told they could stand up to a bully, or weren’t taught how?

90

Oh please,

There’s a fine balance here that has to be done. You have to protect your kids while making sure they are allowed some degree to grow as people. Some parents never let their kids make any deciscions for themselves and never let them grow. The problem with the person comitting suicide is certainly bad, but that’s a danger you have to face. Its just as dangerous as riding in a car. Its something that we all do, while we realize the risks.

The important part of being a good parent in my opinion is helping a kid make the right deciscions when possible. It sounds to me like this girl really wants to stay in school and wants to take care of her problems herself. I mean she didn’t want to tell her mom.

I mean she is 12. In that particular situation I think it would have been appropriate for the parent to ask the kid what they plan on doing about it. If they say, “well, there’s nothing I can do about it, so I guess I’ll just take it.” Then its time to help influence them into making a better deciscion like telling the teacher or fending for themselves or whatever might be in their power. But you can’t just usurp the kid’s ability to make a deciscion for themselves because you don’t want them to get hurt, because if they decide for themselves, then its really a bad thing. I face a lot of psychological abuse from the time I was about 14 until I was about 21 from my peers. I overcame these problems myself, and I think I am a MUCH better person for it.

I’m not saying that its wrong for a parent to try to help a kid out with their problems. That’s a great thing, but if the kid wants to solve it themselves in a responsible way, why not let them? Why not give them the chance at least? I have always been very independent and never wanted help with my problems though. Its not like I’m saying that your have to force your kid to deal with their own problems. But if they want to deal with them themselves, then let them!

Its sad that someone committed suicide because of bullying. I imagine that’s because the kid didn’t let anyone know. Sometimes there is no way of telling if you are a parent. But that’s the parent’s job as far as I’m concerned. But the parent shouldn’t involve themselves to prevent any kind of hurt happening to their kids.

I mean there are lots of sides to this though. If you suspect that your kid is driving around drunk at the age of 16, then you have to do something. That’s a reasonable level to take action, but if you say that you have to protect your kids from all forms of problems because some kids have committed suicide, then that’s where you’re wrong, I believe.

91

I would like to point out that while the OP may be overreacting, the notion that bullying “builds character” is absolute fucking bullshit. All being bullied taught me was not to trust people, to be wary when I meet someone new, and to be constantly on guard in large groups.

92

You’re absolutely right. Being bullied does not build character. What builds character is learning ways of dealing with bullies, and learning that sometimes they work and sometimes they don’t. Building up the expectation that you should never get picked on is somewhat detrimental to the “character building” process, in my opinion.

93

This is the part I don’t get. Why would she now not stay in sight of the teachers?

Maybe she didn’t realize that by being out of the teacher’s sight that she was putting herself in danger. She might not have known that by being where she was that those boys would surround her and her friend. If she was scared and felt threatened enough to shove one of the boys to try to get away from them, getting her face scratched and glasses broken in the process, then why would she continue to put herself in that situation and stay away from the teachers during recess? Why wouldn’t she agree to not stray off out of sight of the teachers, who could help her if the boys threaten her again?

My biggest concern for her would be why at 12 years old she could not be trusted to stay in the area that is safe. When she goes out to movies with her friends and she knows she is supposed to stay in the well lit lobby and wait for her ride, can you trust her not to wait in the dark alley instead?

You can argue that is isn’t fair that kids in school can’t wander away from the rest of the group and still be safe, but if that is the reality, then fair or not, the girls need to make sure they don’t wander off too far. And by age twelve, and with what she just went through, she should know that by now.

I would hope that this situation gets looked into, because as it is stated in the OP it just doesn’t make sense.

If there are bullies who are targeting others, something should be done so no one gets seriously hurt. Bullies should know they will have to face the consequences of their actions. At the same time, the girls should know that they too have to face the consequences of their actions. It is the teacher’s responsibilty to make sure kids are safe at school. If to accomplish this the kids need to stay close enough that the teachers can hear them if they need help, then the kids have the responsibilty to stay in the area.

94

Oh please. How stupid can you get? I don’t even think glasses now a days are made with glass, but plastic. Even those that are made of glass are shatterproof. They don’t fragment when they break, they hold together. The sheer stupidity of suggesting a 12 year old can strike hard enough and fast enough to shatter eyeglasses and send pieces in the eye is overwhelming. Did you even think this through before you opened your fat mouth? I think the only thing your eyes would have to watch out for is pieces of shattered toenail as your foot strikes your teeth.

95

Yeeesh. I go away to work for a day and people post all kinds of stuff about me! This is the pit I guess, but I just wanted to blow off some steam in an anonymous place.

I can’t even begin to address any individual post from anyone, I just read this thread and my head is spinning. To those who think I am a crazy, reactive, bitch who can’t leave well enough alone, well, sorry. I’m doing my best. The fact is, these same boys have harassed her almost continually all year long. This is not the first physical incident, although it is the first one in which she made the first physical move. Other stuff has been more minor “scuffle” type shit -kicking the back of her shins in the hallway, shutting her fingers in her locker, etc. That’s part of the reason I thought about homeschooling her.

Another fact is, my daughter more than likely has a form of autism called Asperger’s disorder. She has every symptom and only lacks the diagnosis, I am taking her for testing at the Cleveland Clinic this summer. Her social skills hover around the five- to six-year-old level, IMHO. She has extreme deficits in communication and picking up social signals, facial expressions, etc. Her IEP in school is considered “Other Medical” because she is medically fragile. So, maybe I am a little overprotective. I am NOT advocating “a bodyguard for my little precious” or whatever Mr. Vitriol called it. However, I don’t believe for a minute that my child is equipped to be completely without adult supervision. She doesn’t seek out supervision because she is impaired in the communication and social areas.

I think she’s doing an amazing job considering her limitations. I’m trying to walk the fine line between not babying her and not protecting her. In some situations, it seems I can avoid neither thing.

Well, I hope everyone lets this drop. Or at least, just know, that I was very emotional when I wrote the OP and am really not a knee-jerk crazy woman. I hated the little bully at the moment - because he has followed my kid around all year to harass and insult her and her friend, and I am sick of it. And when she does something to get away (she said they were “surrounded” - now I’m sure she couldv’e probably run and made a break for it, but that’s not how she generally handles things) she gets damaged. I hated his parents because they never taught him not to hit a girl, I guess. I was full of anger, and I still am. Raising a child is not for the faint of heart.

Remind me not to try to blow off steam in the Pit. I forgot about the hazards. :frowning:

96

The obvious solution is to envelop our kids in 3 inch think Nerf padding. That way, there can be no physical harm done, only emotional.

But face it people. There are bullies in every stage of life. Bully is just another word for an asshole, and an asshole likes to make others feel bad because it either makes them feel better or makes up for their own deficiences. The way you discourage bullies later on in life is through self-confidence. I was bullied around by people until I was much older, and only got around it by having confidence in myself. This behavior of been submissive in large groups is just another consequence of being bullied. I used to be the same way, especially around girls that liked to sense the weakness of guys who were afraid. Everyone who isn’t born with the self-confidence to do this has to learn somehow to show that they aren’t a target, or simply live life protecting themselves.

I honestly wish anyone could have experienced the things that I experienced that allowed me to keep myself from becoming a victim of these predatory asshole bullies that still exist. Sure, the bullies of grade school aren’t the bullies of later life, but you can’t tell me that the bitchy girl, or the asshole guy who makes fun of people to better himself isn’t doing the same thing. The truth is that you can’t do anything about it if you show that you are scared.

Its weird for me now, because I feel that I am a position of power in many friendships that I have now. I’ll give an example of a friend of mine. He was afraid to ask out this girl that he liked. I just tried to gently encourage him with logic like, " Come on man, just do it! and if she doesn’t like you? Fuck her! that’s her problem." Sort of like, “I’m with you, and I’ll help you overcome this fear.” Okay, maybe not exactly like that, but I generally try to help people overcome their weakness by letting them know its okay not to care what other people think so much. But someone would have said to me, and I know it has happened to me when I was in a similar situation, “Don’t be such a pussy, dude! why are you so scared?” That’s bullying in my book. And I got a lot of that. When I am confronted with a situation like that, I’ll always try to help out. I even offered to go out with my friend and this girl in order to help him get this girl.

I had plenty of self-confidence up until when I was about 14 when I started to get really bad acne, which got better, but I never regained the self-confidence to not be afraid of people hurting me. When you are less scared, people will do it less. Then it is of course important to learn to even not let that bother you. The people who will continually pick on someone that is self-confident are very few and far between and if they keep on doing it that’s when you cut them off, because you know you can find better people to be around.

But bullying sucks. If you can find some utopia where assholes don’t exist, and you don’t need to be afraid of people trying to put you down, then by all means go there and don’t worry about this anymore, but people need to learn to deal with assholes at some stage or another.

But the point is that assholes will exist in life, and sometimes other people will incite others to be assholes going to the lowest common denominator.

Homeschooling seems weird to me. But maybe your daughter is a special case where you would be better off waiting until Highschool. By that time there would obviously be a clique where she could hang out.

97

You’re being a little harsh for me explaining my own anecdotal solution of how I stopped being a target 27 years ago and how my newfound confidence help me from that point on. I will dismiss your substandard response on account of your noobness. It has nothing to do with anyone else committing suicide, from bullying or not. In my own case, if you want to call me a fucking moron, at least tell me that I should have faced these bullies sooner rather than later. :wally

98

Support your daughter’s decision to stay in public school: this is the only control she has in the matter, and will help her realize that she can (and is expected to) deal with these things.

Go the the prinicipal, and…: ask him/her to publicly ridicule the bully for hitting a girl in the face. Make him feel like a real asswipe for doing this this (in front of his peers). The humilation factor presents a good opportunity for him to learn.

Carry on: Not that one would want or expect this to happen, but it does. Take a breath - its not a life changing event, and despite the inherent unfairness of it all, your daughter will continue to be a better person than the kid that hit her.

Seriously, what an assclown. If I was principal, I’d make him wear a shirt that said so.

99

Uhm whiskey tango foxtrot. You think your child has autism and you are waiting to have her tested?

100

treis. She’s on a waiting list.